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A Pakistani Trainer Jet For The Indian Air Force?

April 13, 2010

Ahmed Quraishi

Here is a chance that India blew to send a strong message for peace with both Pakistan and China.  An Egyptian diplomat based in New Delhi apparently offered recently to help Indian Air Force overcome its shabby pilot training program.

According to a report by the Indian magazine Business Standard, the Egyptian official offered a novel solution: An Egyptian Air Force training crew flown from Egypt to India to train Indian pilots using Karakoram-8, the multirole trainer jointly developed by both Pakistan and China and now used by a growing list of countries, including Egypt, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Malaysia, Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Namibia, not to mention the air forces of both Pakistan and China.

Says the Indian magazine: “Since the offer was not followed up in writing, the Indian Air Force (IAF) was spared the embarrassment of having to reply.”

But the Egyptian diplomat was not playing dumb. He knew what he was saying.  The Egyptians are no novices in diplomacy.  Maybe he was just hoping to make a small indirect breakthrough in India’s tense relationship with both Pakistan and China.  Cairo enjoys excellent relations with Islamabad and Beijing.

It would have been a smart move had the Indian air force accepted the offer. New Delhi has close ties to Egypt and extensive military-to-military relations. So there is no question of trust deficit.  Using a trainer developed by Pakistan and China would have said a lot about how confident India is about itself.  The move would have also made financial and practical sense.  Despite India’s massive military procurement program, it’s pilot training record is downright embarrassing. Again, here’s a quote from the same report: “… the IAF’s notoriously unreliable basic trainer, the HPT-32 Deepak, was grounded after a horrific crash that killed two experienced pilots. In 17 Deepak crashes so far, 19 pilots have died.”

This move would have done good where Indian diplomacy in recent years has done little to improve relations with its two neighbors.

The list of Indian hostile messages to Pakistan and China is long [acquiring Pakistan-specific weapon systems, building Pakistan- and China-specific bases near the two borders, quietly supporting terrorism inside China in Tibet in Xinjiang and Inside Pakistan’s Balochistan and in cities close to Pakistan’s border with India.

The Karakoram-8, and its several recent upgraded models, is jointly developed and produced by China Nanchang Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.  The plane is called K-8 Karakorum after the mountain range that separates China and Pakistan. Although it is a trainer, the jet can be used for light air-to-ground combat roles with easy modifications. [See specifications here].

Links:

Pakistani trainer Jet for India?

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50 comments

  1. India’s relation with China is in a totally different plane as compared to that with Pakistan.

    There is no use trying to team up with China against India.

    The days are not far when the Pakistanis would have to accept this painful fact.


    • @ Neel123 and what is that painful fact?

      Filthy hindoz always lie through their filthy teeth. indickn hindoz can never speak the truth about anything. SHAME :((


      • India has no reason to finance terrorist organizations like the LET and the JEM by purchasing anything from Pakistan.

        The same is true for not allowing any Pakistani to play in the IPL.

        Any tax paid to the Pakistani Govt. would end up in financing terrorists.


      • @neel123,
        darling, India has GENUINE reasons however, to finance her own terrorists thru receiving International Church charities, selling her own kids for adoptions, with more than half a million US$ finances, she can feed her 780 millions of hungry citizens & increase her defence Budget to 37 billions US$. CLEVER BANIYA !!
        1.NOT ALLOWING PAKISTANI TO PLAY IN THE IPL IS SHEER COWARDICE & ESCAPE FROM DEFEAT. BRIT COLONIAL HERITAGE !!
        2.EVEN THEN,UR 22 NUCLEAR INSTALLATIONS WILL KEEP ON LEAKING LIKE UR PUBLIC
        COLLECTIVE TOILETS,
        3.UR ARMY’S OPTICAL VISIBILITY DURING THE NIGHT REMAINS 0.3% AS UR SENAPATTI QUOTED.
        4.UR AIRFORCE JETS WILL KEEP ON MISSING NEELGAGAN,INSTEAD OF FLYING UP, GOING
        DOWNWARDS TOWARDS HINDU DHARTI MATA FOR HER ASHIRVAAD
        AND SO MANY OTHER INDIAN ACHIEVEMENTS ! HA HA HA HA HA


      • Dude… continue underestimating India


    • @neel123,
      India’s relation with China since 1962’s humiliating defeat, remains historically skeptical ! Ur Chanakiya’s planning is very “closely ” studied by Chinese.
      The days are not far when Pakistanis & Chinese
      Armies would ” further come closer ” to Indians indeed. Don’t complain against our team work !


      • What’s a “Chanakiya” planning that we always hear you Pakis talk about?


  2. AQ is full of BS


    • @Jain,

      and u r full of beans !


  3. Actually – that’s a brilliant idea. What better way to foster co-operation between the two nations than an exchange of equipment and training?

    What a shame this offer wasn’t taken up…


  4. MUSLIM AND COMMUNIST SCIENTISTS ARE INDEED INTELLIGENT BECAUSE OF THEIR COMMITMENT TO PEACE
    FOR EXAMPLE I CLAIM VERY VERY HUMBLY THAT THERE WOULD BE ONLY VERY FEW SCIETISTS IN THE WORLD WHO WOULD BE USING MY METHODS OF ANALYSIS IN DIFFERENT FIELDS OF SCIENCE INCLUDING PHYSICS.FOR EXAMPLE I HAVE INVENTED A USEFUL SET OF TOOLS IN MARHEMATICS WHICH I CALL ‘NON-QUANTIFYING’ MATHEMATICS WHILE AS I CALL MUCH OF THE FIELDOF CONTEMPORARY MATHEMATICS AS ‘QUANTIFYING’ MATHEMATICS-INDIA ENVEYS THAT


    • Do try not to use capital letters. Not only does it make you look stupid, it also means that no one really bothers to read what you type…


      • @ Amused Shut it or else I’ll come over and shut it for you. And one more thing; if you have not the intelligence to read what COMMUNIST had said then bugger off from here.

        Retard indickn hindoz always are plopping their biased crap for no particular reasons.

        NOW…NIF NAF….FROM HERE AND DON’T EVER COME BACK, NO ONE WANTS YOU HINDOZ HERE FOR YOUR THIRD RATE COMMENTS.


      • Aww…. another two brain celled Pakistani… who thinks abuse equates to discussions. How sweet… now go back to sucking your thumb kiddo and learn how to spell


      • @Amused,
        using small letters did serve any purpose
        for u ? on the contrary, I was amused
        reading clearly communist’s text about his
        achievements, u r not amused, i can see !
        are u jealous ?


      • Let me guess – I’m jealous of an obviously immature, caps using Paki who claims to have developed a set of ‘non-quantifying’ mathematics tools, who can’t spell properly.

        Hmmm…. no wonder you guys still live in the dark ages.


  5. @ Ahmed Quraishi well done with your brilliant way of exposing indickn hindoz. Keep up.

    There is no one better in the print media then Ahmed Quraishi.

    The way AQ skins these indickn hindoz, the retard sick & persistant chasers and then puts salt and chilli paper on their seeping and bleeding wonds;”oh man”…ccccccccccccc..ouch’..:))


  6. Uncle uncle I heard that the indian saina is very strong. Uncle – yes it is very strong dumb because it cannot even build a trainer plane. But uncle it is developing Agnis, Ganeshs and brahmoses how this is happening. Uncle – yeah but they are not developed by india itself as they are dumb ass and the technology is provided by russia and their newly found uncle, uncle sam. You know what i mean.


  7. Awww so sad indians didnt able to make a trainer jet u guyz just gud at making movie rather then doing something practical wakeup from ur day dreamings indians


  8. Manmohan complained with Obama about Pakistan. slumdogs are begging USA for help against Pakistan. These beggars always do that, begging USSR, Israel, USA, … Keep it up slumdogs!


  9. last time i heard, bharat was relentlessly boasting of having best pilots.

    egpyt has more likely tried to show bharat a mirror in telling it that its pilots need some sheer training to come at par with pakistani pilots…

    bharat thought they could take out an advanced trainer and save some bucks by putting its pilots straight to fighter jets. well right now the training is completely stopped and its gona take years before these pilots can get some standard training.

    but guess what meanwhile pakistan is acquiring the L15 advanced jet trainer for its fc20s and f16s.

    pakistan is so cool and paf is so cooler…

    its not afraid to carry out operations to kill hindu supported terrorists inside pakistan. neither is pakistan army AFRAID to go into jungles and deserts and mountains…guess next up is egypt telling india to take some COIN training from pakistan in learning to fight naxals…

    pakistan is so cool..it comes at top everytime in every hardship…thats why i love it


    • Good for you


      • @amused yes it is good for us? shameless idiot you have nothing to say now so shut up. Your indian pm is raising concerns over pakistan’s nuclears when your nuclear are at a greater risk than any other country as the nexals going to cotnrol it once they will have their part free from terrorist india which is going to be 20 pieces soon and that is because your slumdog country cannot even build a trainer jet. India the superpower of terrorism and slumdog.


      • y did ur army and air chief refuse to take on naxals?


      • I might be an idiot… but you are uncouth and probably had a bad upbringing… so I’ll continue being an idiot and you continue being abusive and showing off your upbringing to the rest of the world.


    • @ Indian Pilots are only worth on ground,

      if they are flying, its great risk for their
      cities, if u shout behind them, hey there is a
      PAF behind u, they quickly ran to ran of kutch
      to hide ! & look for nearest toilet !!
      ha ha ha ha


  10. Love u AQ nice job done


  11. A ha, shame for Indians to “learn” flying on a Pakistani Jet Trainer….. booooooooooooooo


    • doesn’t the quran say that if you have to learn go as far as china? then where’s the shame from learning from pakistan?


      • @Amused

        Don’t be too smart.It is true little knowledge is dangerous.

        It is,in fact, a Hadeeth from Allah’s Prophet(SAW).


      • Amused,

        If you don’t know flying, on what grounds do you pass threatening boasts to Pakistan. Have a milk bottle, grow out of your papers before claining to know flying.


      • If a little knowledge is dangerous – so is paranoia. The fact remains that what I said has been said before – so I still stand by what I said – no shame in learning, even if it is from you.


  12. amused vs many pakistanis and still winning?
    reminds me of western theatre of war in 71 conflict.

    so will india buy these chinese trainers?


    • @ A CHAMCHA IS ALWAYS AMUSED, REMINDS ME OF
      INDIAN THEATRE, NAUTANKI INDIAN DEFEAT IN
      CHUMB-JORIAN SECTOR 1971, THOUSANDS OF DRUNK
      INDIAN SOLDIERS SURRENDERING, THE WESTERN
      THEATRE SCENARIO SHOWED 16 DIVISION INDIAN
      “BRAVE” SENA AIDED BY 320.000 MUKHTI BAHINI
      AGAINST 1 & A HALF DIVISION STRANDED PAK ARMY,
      INDIAN INSIST THAT IT WAS A WAR !!
      WHAT A DRAMA ?


      • You’re absolutely right. 1971 was a drama. The 91000 Pakistani PoWs were a figment of my imagination and the newly created state of Bangladesh – well – you guys just generously gave that away as well… and the apology that the GoB wants from the GoP for war crimes – that’s all nonsense isn’t it.

        Might I suggest a trip to your local shrink….


  13. “very proficient in [their] aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome,”
    “The adversaries are better than we thought,” Col. Mike Snodgrass added.” And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated.”
    “What we’ve seen in the last two weeks is the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with best AF in the world.”
    “I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home.”
    “The greatest compliment we heard from an IAF pilot – You American pilots are just like us, simply down to earth people.”

    “We came rolling in, like, ‘Beep-beep, superpower coming through,'” Colonel Fornof told me. “And we had our eyes opened. We learned a lot. By the third week, we were facing a threat that we weren’t prepared to face, because we had underestimated them. They had figured out how to take Russian-built equipment and improve upon it.”


    • Bohahahahahahahahahahahahaha


    • @ nik,

      Dil ke behlanay ko Ghalib, yeh khayyal achha he,

      filbadih arz he :

      Mubtilah hogaye woh ghass ko charte charte,
      hai kiya khwab, khane ko sirif khushfehmi
      rafaykashmiri


      • @Rafay saab

        You seem to be a man of extremes, with your posts ranging from very entertaining (like this one) to very frustrating (in which you seem to rant against the Indians and Hindus just like most other Pakistani posters on this website…

        Hoping to see more of your shayari and the fun side of your personality… I wish we could all learn from you and lighten up a little bit to build such an understanding of each other that our hukumaran are forced to work towards a peaceful resolution of all issues…


  14. The narrow minded hindus had a gud thing in it they enjoy there insult and humiliation and said that a victory alass grown up babies


  15. Nik like your terrorist country you are sick


    • jealousy is unbecoming and destructive.
      it is your fault that you did not stay in india. now live with the consequences.


      • The Muslims,who stayed in India have still not been accepted,although it is third and fourth generation of people who died in 1947 massacre of Muslims.

        A muslim can become a President or Vice President,but cannot get a job of “chaprasi”or a clerk.

        Currently,there are riots in Hyderabad,and riots are frequent in Mumbai,Bihar,UP etc.


  16. I would urge all pakistanis to answers Indians with respect and dignity. You know our Islam does not teach rudeness and vulgarity, so hopefully you will answer them with wisdom and intelligence.Bundu khan


    • Islam does not teach rudeness and vulgarity? thats hard to believe considering the kind of posts written by your countrymen


      • @nik

        Come to the fold of Islam.It has much more qualities than you can imagine and have ever dreamt of.Such as:

        Worship Allah instead of a cow(and its urine and dung),

        Eat Halal food instead of rats.

        I can go on and on as Islam is the religion chosen by Allah,over all other religions and mythologies(Hinduism,Budhism,Jainism etc).


      • @NoNonSense

        “Worship Allah instead of a cow(and its urine and dung), Eat Halal food instead of rats. I can go on and on as Islam is the religion chosen by Allah,over all other religions and mythologies (Hinduism, Budhism, Jainism etc).”

        It is exactly this kind of mind-set that leads very quickly from nationalism to extremism and ultimately to terrorism…

        Just imagine if a seemingly educated person like you thinks this way, how easy it must be to sway the minds of thousands of young semi-literate boys like Ajmal Kasab and use them as enemy fodder…

        Please reach out to the deeper truer aspects of Islam if you wish you distinguish yourself from others… Try to attain a higher moral ground and demonstrate in day to day life, rather than spread hatred in the name of Allah (SWT), the Prophet (PBUH) and Islam…


      • @Reality Bites

        SACH KARWA HOTA HAI.To call spade a spade is not spreading rerrorism.

        If you know the deeper and truer aspects of Islam,then when will be the YOUM-E-NAJAT for you and when we are listening the good news.


  17. “I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home.”

    — USAF Col.


  18. I think Ahmed Qureshi has done a good job. Although the points raised in the article won’t be appraised by everyone.



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