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Kayani Talks Of His Vision Of Afghanistan

February 7, 2010

DURING his candid talks with foreign journalists on Monday, COAS General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani crystallized Pakistan’s traditional stand on Afghanistan and warmth towards people of that country.

Speaking in the backdrop of his trip to Brussels, where he put across Pakistan’s point of view on Afghan conflict, the COAS reflected sentiments of the nation by summarizing the country’s interest in the well-being of the people of Afghanistan by saying “We cannot wish for Afghanistan anything that we don’t wish for Pakistan”.

The historic remarks of the COAS once again re-affirmed Pakistan’s oft-repeated assertion that its objective was to have peaceful, stable and friendly Afghanistan. This is also a strong rejoinder to those who are engaged in malicious propaganda that Pakistan was part of the problem in Afghanistan. Ever since its inception, Pakistan has serious security problems emanating from across its eastern borders and it would least indulge in any activity that could destabilize its western borders as well.

In fact, destinies of people of Pakistan and Afghanistan are deeply interlinked. Pakistan has been aspiring for closer economic and commercial ties with the resource rich Central Asian Republics and has plans for establishment of energy and trade corridors with them but all of them invariably depend on a peaceful Afghanistan. Under these circumstances, Pakistan cannot be part of any plan to destabilize Afghanistan but vested interests are hatching conspiracies to malign Pakistan and create misunderstanding between the two countries. Similarly, the assessment of the Army Chief that support of the public opinion and media and resolve and capability of the Army turned the tide in the ongoing war against terror is also a clear message to the outside world that Pakistan is a peace loving country and those engaged in the propaganda on the contrary have their own vested interests in maligning Pakistan. Americans and NATO forces could not create even a semblance of peace in Afghanistan but Pakistani forces with full backing of the nation have achieved miraculous successes in military operations in Swat, Malakand and South Waziristan. We have been emphasizing in these columns that Pakistan should do its homework to present its case before the world community in a logical and argumentative manner and we are glad that the Army Chief has done that during his visit to Brussels and interaction with foreign media persons. Others in the Government too, especially those in the Foreign Office, should follow the suit.

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40 comments

  1. Jiye COAS jiye pak army
    PAKISTAN zindabad


  2. god job done by COAS KIANI nd PAK ARMY


  3. Allah Pakistan Aur iis Mulk Ke NATION Aur ARMY Ko Mazboot Rakhey, AMEEN


  4. kiyani is totally different and is way better than musharaf and what a wise man he is and has the know how to tackle pakistan enemies everywhere on ground and in media toooo and he did a goood job in putting Pakistanis point of view in Brussels conference
    kaaash ke kiyani musharraf ke waqt COAS hota to aaj halaat pakistan ke ander aur bahir bikul different hotay

    still he is goood COAS maybe the best for the todays time and scenario jiunda rey pervaiz kiyani
    PAKISTAN ZINDABAAAD……..


    • Yes brother maybe ur right.Well done kyani. As COAS you have delivered and performed your duty well. This is what normaly a COAS should be doing defending Pakistan borders and both internally and externally.
      It is the history of Pakistan that a general comes and destory the democracy institutions and country as a whole.When they have not planned for the country betterment by spoiling all the infrastructre and not planning for 10 years about the elcericity, food , water etc requirment of pakistan in coming years they leave the job to be done by politicians.When the hatered grows among people against army then a general left with no choice but to perform his usual duty, which Gneral Kiani is doing well.
      So wake up people the normal duty of COAS is now looking a great duty because of the Generals like Ayub khan, yaha Khan, Zia , Musharaf,because all generals have spoiled the country and made it war zone and has made their children politican, millionare and got property of millions in UK and USA for their kids and themselves.So please consider this as well.


    • have you thought of who appointed COAS kiyani? yes, it was pervez musharraf. the ability to pick a talented and deserving COAS goes to the person who picked him as well. kiyani is a very capable general, and pakistan will be in trouble when he retires in november.


      • He was the senior most in generals and is automatically became the generals when army was fed up of traitor Musharaf. What about those generals who were more competent but were waiting to become generals but there was the traitor Musharaf who was holding multiple offices?so please wake up and understand.


      • it is not musharrafs fault that he was appointed over more senior generals. thats the fault of nawaz sharif, who was seeing nightmares of an army takeover as a result of jehangir karamats suggestions of a NSC. you are allowed to bypass senior generals and pick someone you think will make a competent COAS. musharraf was the first COAS to not do that, instead sticking with seniority and competence. calling him a traitor just shows what kind of mentality and IQ you have. wake up and smell the coffee.


      • traitor is a traitor haws sold people of pakistan for dollars like Afia Sidiqui, So what ever u think or say traitor is a traitor and a person who take side of traitor is worse then a traitor as prophet Mohammad SAWAS said if you can’t stop the bad thing at least say or think it is bad so wake up and smell ur …..


  5. he is the man wid guts n gud strong leadership capabilities i hve ever seen …God bless him to lead the pak armed forces wid full zeil n zest…pak armed forces zindabad….n honourable salute to COAS…the leading defender of pakistan.


    • Dear All,

      I dont understand on what we are fighting at,
      How can we Imagine Peace in Pakistan if there is no peace in Afghanistan or even India, Its just like that whether u accept it or not..
      I understand that there are some differences and these differences need to be resolved and discussions is the only way to do it..
      Writing Slang will not be of any worth.
      Lets just hear others voice with patience and then be heard with patience as well..
      May God bless “our Region”…. Yes thats our region (Including all the countries)


  6. Afghanistan will be a nation of the vision of the Afghan people, not any mother fu**er Pakistani .. !


    • u benchod


      • @ Neel123,

        Your comment shows that you don’t know anything about Afghanistan and Pakistan. Uttering “profanity” is not going to add weight to your point of view.

        KID grow up.


      • hamza, you know why he’s swearing? because right now pakistan has defeated all of their exported terrorism in pakistan and pakistan stands tall. we have hit them hard, and hit them strong where it hurts most. expect such behaviour. in a lions words: they are scared of us, they are terrorized of us (waking up). no need to swear, just pity and or ignore em. brace yourself here, and brace the pakistani nation. aray yaar just what at most can they do? sari duniya ko jama kar liya hay afghanistan main phir bi maar kha rahay hain…you know how much long they can survive in afghanistan. ignore karo brother. our aim is too big for these petty mites.


    • though i don’t appreciate u’r language but as a Pakistani i do agree that Afghanistan should be a nation of the vision of the Afghans.

      a country (pakistan) which allied with invading kaafir forces have no right to gives it’s vision for the future of Afghanistan.


      • Imran,

        Who told you that Pakistan wants to control Afghanistan or anything? I don’t know what do you mean or understand by the term VISION OF AFGHANS but Pakistan’s vision is Islam and afghans are also muslims. Who’s vision are they likely to adopt? Pakistan’s or India’s or USA’s or what?

        And just so we know, general kayani recently declared that Pakistan has no interest in controlling afghanistan and history tells that Pakistan has never controlled afghanistan. Pakistan does have a strategic stake in Afghanistan but that’s just to it. And you tell me, who does not have a stake in Afghanistan? The fact is those who are talking of stability in afghanistan were no where to be seen when soviet union invaded afghanistan. India sided with soviet union in destabilizing afghanistan by supporting the invasion, not stabilizing it. And when USA abandoned the country, it was not india, not UK, not europe, not USA not UN but Pakistan and Pakistan alone that brought stability to afghanistan by at least forming some form of government in the country that USA screwed up. No one wanted to get in there when the times were tough. Where was India’s petty charities then? Today, because India sees a role in exporting terrorism through afghanistan, its so keen in staying in afghanistan. We do not have any problems with anyone. Lets play on fair terms. Everyone wants to have a strategic stake in afghanistan. At least pakistan has the guts to say that. India does not even have those guts. And the fact is, destability in afghanistan was seen AFTER 2001 not before it when Pakistan had greater leverage in afghanistan. Yes afghanistan is a free country but do not forget that it has no sea or agriculture. All food supplies go to afghanistan from pakistan. Afghanistan uses sea ports of pakistan. Pakistan has been feeding the country and its nationals for like ever without asking for any control but just mere brotherhood of muslims. The country has no infrastructure of its own and its time we understand that no non muslim country can bring peace in a muslim country. Those people do not follow islam as a religion, but as culture. Islam is part of their culture. They are not likely to abandon it under some foreign vision. If you think pakistan should leave afghanistan to the world, thats something that neither afghans would like nor pakistan and it would only destabilize the region and pakistan more. If the vision of afghans is their religion Islam, can you guarantee that with Pakistan or India?

        And please don’t accuse the whole pakistani nation of one bad decision of one general. He made mistakes deliberately or unknowingly, but what’s important is that things can be put into place and fixed in only matter of days. This government has carried on with the policies of previous government. They gave bases and this gov did not take it back. Same goes for all other policies. But the fact is, if there remains some form of peace, its because of pakistan armed forces policies. Alot of stuff is going in untold, doesn’t mean that we start a trail of accusations. Can’t you feel the difference in opinions of Pak and USA here? Just bear through, whatever is happening is a blessing in disguise. We have some prowestern and some propakistan element in the armed forces and in gov both. Whatever is happening is opening the eyes of that prowestern element and the pakistani nation. They will disengage, don’t worry. Times change. Bear through.


  7. […] Kayani Talks Of His Vision Of Afghanistan […]


  8. Man o man!!!!! What a drama!!! Do you guys think the world is DUMB!!! Every tom, dick, Harry and their uncle know that Pak is totally responsible for the current situation in Afghanistan. To say the U.S. is seeing Pak point of view does not mean that is the Holy Grail…..it only means U.S. has lost its balls….and its brains.


  9. General Kiyani is functioning in a very difficult situation. I commend him for the strong nerves and understanding of the whole regional situation.

    What a great thing it would have been if a strong civil government collaborated with him. But all our leaders are pigs, with a capital “P”…..


    • He is doing a good job and is resisting pressure of govt and foreign countries…laikin aik sawal hai…what is stopping our army from a coup to replace the corrupt politicians like zardari? Coup has happened in the past too…for replacement of civilain govts. Is baar itnay critical point in time par what is holding th back? Would a coup cause chaos and produce more harm than good?


      • @ Salman Zafar

        Yaar, in fact, it would be detrimental in the regional situation. An army coup would be exactly what enemies want to displace the army from it’s actual role, thus causing “slow attrition”. The idea is to keep army “at the borders”.

        During the time of Pervaiz Musharraf, the image of Army was ruined and I think General Kiyani has improved it by keeping it separate from politics in the conventional sense. I am not saying army has no role in politics, may be it has, but not in the conventional sense.

        On the other hand, we can see that the hatred for poitician growing in our country haas never been seen before. This would in itself fueling an internal revolution. Politicians are being exposed by not being able to stand the “test of time”.

        In near future, army coup cannot be excluded, but we need to be prepared to handle the situation then.


      • What if army does the initial coup…then picks an interim set up of Mr ZH style patriots… Iqbal’s Shaheens….and then goes back to its appropriate role of defending the countries borders…the new Islamic civilian set up can do the reform and governing and free the army from the burden of governing….


      • Dear Salman Zafar

        Agree with you. It is possible. Thats why, as I said, we need to change ourselves first and evolve into patriotic pakistanis. Right now, there seems to be no alternative.


      • after reading some comments, i believe the meaning of the words “Good Job” has changed. i mean what good is the job in giving routes to america/nato forces for supply lines. what good a job is in continuous killing of Muslims in drone attacks.

        & what good the coup will bring for us?
        Last time coup resulted in alliance with America to invade & ruin a Muslim land Afghanistan. What good this coup gonna bring, more Muslim blood?


  10. I think India and Pakistan need to cooperate to get a stable Afghanistan. As long as Pakistan continues to support the Taliban, India will continue to support the Northern Alliance and the people of Afghanistan will suffer. Is it too much to expect though?


    • @ Abused by a family member

      Can u pull ur head out of that cows ass for a sec ?

      now, the best thing for Pakistan to do is to support the taliban and kick india in its cunt using them and then afghanistan and pakistan can together gang up to free kashmir, nagaland, assam, hyderbad, the dalits, shudrs and all other group who want freedom so further clean up india 😀 😀

      Now that will truly solve all issues at their crux 😀 :d


  11. i don’t see General Kiyani recognising the fact that America is an invading force. Lets admit the fact that Pakistan allied with America to destroy Afghanistan and they are still in alliance with america/nato forces.

    So words like afghan brothers, peace, stability etc/, doesn’t suit coming out from a Pakistani mouth. Pakistan doesn’t have any moral ground to talk of any vision for Afghanistan.

    now don’t label me as an indian or afghan. My problem is that my allegiance is to Islam & Muslims and not to any army or specific nation.


  12. India water stealing causes
    $12b loss to Pakistan

    Lahore—India is stealing 15-20% of water from western rivers causing $ 12 billion loss to the agriculture of Pakistan.

    This was revealed in a report of Engineers Study Forum, a water experts panel, on rivers of India and Pakistan, a spokesman of the forum told APP here on Sunday. “Total water availability of the western rivers is 125.6 MAF.

    Out of which India steals a big chunk of water having economic cost in term of loss to agriculture in Pakistan as estimated at 12 billion dollars per year”, he said.

    This is a blatant violation of the Indus Water Treaty of 1960 and UN conventions. India is blocking water from the Chenab and Jhelum rivers by constructing dams like Baghlihar, Kishen Ganga, Wuller Barrage, Pakal Dul and taking other diversion measures.

    The forum has urged Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani to lodge a claim with the United Nations, World Bank and International Court of Justice of billions of dollars in terms of loss caused to Paksitan’s agriculture per year. Legal cases should also be instituted and vigorously pursued by a team of legal, diplomatic, and technical experts, stated the forum.

    “Indus Water Treaty of 1960 provides that Pakistan shall receive all waters of the western rivers (Indus, Jhelum, Chenab) except for some specified uses from these rivers by India, which obviously does not cover diversions or pilferage”, the spokesman said.

    Engineers Study Forum has criticised the alleged lack of success on the part of Pakistan experts, including Commissioner Indus Waters, against India’s ‘economic onslaught’.—APP


  13. @imran…i understand your point but u have to understand back then after 9/11 in 2001,situation was pretty different,talibans were convinced that al qaeeda is an islamic organisation fighting for pan islamism,world was convinced or should say majority of the world was at the side of united states as the 9/11 was used as a pretext to invade every country in the name of eliminating terrorism,even though we were a nuclear power and we should have been neutral,neither with taliban nor with USA but we did side with USA for a regime change…analyse the situation and ask urself..would it have been really awesome if so called alqaeeda(fake islamists not fighting for khilafah in anyway) would have been allied with us..i bet USA would have used the pretext of alqaeeda against us too and like it or not..medina made a peace deal with quraish for 10 years in order to regain strength and stragetic gains too..same like quraish americans were pretty much tough back in the days of 9/11…there was no economic melt down,there was no iraq defeat,there was no aggressive russia,there was not so strong china as it is now..it could have all the bases of india..it could have also used the bases of india in tajikistan…it might have also get the proper intel through cia agents or i should say al qaeeda..now look at the situation…america is no more a migthy superpower..russia and china is threatining its very existence as a global power through economic and other means..it had a very bad experience in iraq..it has almost lost a war in afghanistan…it has lost all its ground assets or those ground assests have lost thier credibility or the reason they were using to gather support from people..america is weak..its surrounded..it needs a way out..india is exploding in its own insurgencies..we have cleared out most of our foreign funded agencies and some that are left will finish by itself once the afghan taliban reclaim thier rule..mullah omar and various afghan jihad factions have denounced TTP and col.imam of ISI has said once mullah omar finishes up with USA he will go after ALQAEEA..coz he had enough of it..situation is very complex and our enemy has a very very big problem with pakistan..its still a dying global power..it is using every possible means to weaken us,TTP,BLA,BRA,JSOC,MOSSAD,CIA,NSA,BLACKWATER,RAW,KHAD,EX-KGB..no doubt we have committed serious mistakes..but a real nation is that rise to the challenge..not curse it self in front of challenge..stop cursing urself for being paksitanis..this country was build for a reason and will be no doubt will reach to the takmeel of that reason..that is the establishment of khilafah in pakistan in general and in the muslim world as whole..our enemy is one inch away from losing..lets be united and forget the differences..be one nation only then we can rise as ummah..


  14. @imran…we all know who is indian here and who is not..anyways everyone has the right to say..this is the times of dajjal…its the age of deception..his motto is …i came…i saw…i conquered…these zionists will gave put u in a situation so complex that u will start dancing on their tunes..u have the rigth to disagree on anything..but think at least thrice before making an opinion..deception is made in such a way where our eyes acts blind…our ears deaf..INSHA ALLAH..ummah will rise and pakistan will rise..afghan taliban will reclaim their land..wheter anyone likes or not


  15. @Layla
    you have gone wrong that Sheikh Imran Hosein’s main focus is End Times relating Imam Mahdi/Dajjal/Gog-Magog etc., Along with these, his main focus is also on Khilafat/international affairs/Islamic finance/spirituality (i’ll not be surprised if one day Zaid Hamid reveals that he has taken guidance from Sheikh Imran Hosein’s lectures for his programmes) and how these things are interlinked and affect our today’s lives and how all these interlinked subjects will lead us to End Times. We Muslims are dead as we take these end time events & how they are affecting us today as fantacy stories. In this regard jews/christians are way better than us Muslims, each and every single step Israel takes is in conformity with their ideology that a messiah (dajjal) will come and rule the world from Jerusalem.

    Dr.Israr Ahmad never said that before the appearance of Imam Mahdi a state in the east necessarily Pakistan will be established rather he says and the Prophecy is that the Army from Khorasan will help Imam Mahdi. Ancient Khorasan includes whole Afghanistan,parts of central asia bordering afghanistan, parts of iran bordering afghanistan & parts of Pakistan bordering afghanistan.(sindh/punjab doesn’t border afghanistan)but this doesn’t mean that those not forming part of Khorasan can’t be part as the command of Prophet Muhammad Saw’ is to join this army when it emerges.

    This Ancient Khorasan is already the focal point in today’s Geo politics (central asian parts has yet to focus), the question is what role are we playing, are we preparing ourselves to be part of this army, is there any acceptance of this Hadith in PA circles, is PA an ideologically motivated army and many other questions????????

    if we analyze, over the last decade Pak army has played a very negative role in the Khorasan region. Afghan Talibans are supposed to be good Talibans and our friends as Zaid Hamid says than the question arises why our army which is supposed to be part of Khorasan army back stabbed their own friends and this trend is continuing to date by allowing the supply lines through Pakistan which will eventually be used against our own friends Talibans. Will the Talibans or Afghan people ever trust us in the future?

    It’s in this context Sheikh Imran Hosein and other scholars like Dr.Israr Ahmad are warning and giving wakeup call to Pakistan (specifically Pak Army). Wakeup call doesn’t comes from blind praises rather it comes from critical assessment and showing things as they are.

    You are wrong when you say that Sheikh Imran Hosein being a non-pakistan sees little or no importance of Pakistan. This has nothing to do with any nation/ethnicity. The scholar is simply warning of the destruction if we don’t change our ways. Even Dr.Israr Ahmad holds the same views, see his lecture “Kya Pakistan kay khatmay ki ulti ginti shuru hoa chuki hai”. What’s wrong with the view that Israel want’s to destroy our nuclear plants, doesn’t Zaid Hamid holds the same view that Israel is the biggest enemy?

    Sheikh Imran Hosein’s view is simple “If Pakistan continues to be a friend of USA then its destruction is assured”. We are already seeing the cost we are paying for being an ally of America and this alliance clearly contradicts the sayings in Quran. Just tell me the reasons why Allah swt’ keep on blessing us and why not destroy us ? I invite all brothers & sisters to plz open Quran and read about those nations destroyed by Allah swt’. The reasons for which those nations were destroyed are all present in Pakistani nation.

    Sheikh Imran Hosein is correct in saying that the moment of truth for the Pakistanis has arrived. I believe it’s the Pakistanis who have to decide where this moment of truth will take us, only two choices:

    Either bow down to Allah swt’ and repent for big blunders which we are doing even today including the alliance with kaafir America/nato forces and start working for which we made promise and got Pakistan.

    Or

    Ignore the warnings of Scholars & sayins in Quran and await a horrible destruction (the destruction has already begun) as Allah swt’ has plans and if we Pakistanis aren’t ready to implement the plans than Allah swt’ has no problems in destroying one nation and replacing it with another who will implement these plans.

    The choice is ours…………


    • Imran

      Thank you for your reply

      please bear in mind that no scholar in his entirety can be 100% right or 100% wrong. If you remember the hadith in which prophet mentioned the five advaar of naboovat, khilafat e rashida, ghulami wali malookiat, kaat khanay wali malookiat and at the end khilafat again, you’ll get your answer that shaikh is basically referring to the last stage of return of a true khilafat. through our sources and various ahadits we know that we are now in the end times and the time coming is of nashat e saniya of islam under another khilafat. having said this, its true that shaikh basically talks in context to this last daur of khilafat and personally i believe he in some kind of hurry to get there. i may or may not be wrong but all islamic scholars now talk of this. I’m really surprised at you somehow accusing me of thinking of this as “fantasy stories”, brother thats not what i mean. I have all the faith in the world about every single hadith and i would never think of any of these as you mentioned. We should choose our words carefully. Second off, its great if zaid hamid takes his guidance from shaikh, i would not be surprised but i do think that shaikh does not give much importance to pakistan in the end times and its understandable because the hadiths of ghazwa e hind also are not in any books of siha e sitta and so many people tend to neglect pakistan. It is why the feeling of pakistans ascension can only be felt by Pakistanis.

      I stand by Dr.Israr’s statement. If you want you can even ask him yourself. What you said about him talking about khorasaan is also true but Dr.Israr has many times stated that its logical that before mahdi appears a state in east is established on the principles of islam that will go and help mahdi. The forces from khorasaan may also be a part of it or it may be part of forces rising from khorasaan because that doesnt matter. Pakistan and afghanistan are basically tied up in this knot of fate. It is also true that he envisions this state as Pakistan.

      Brother, we as a nation need to be patient. We are going through a transformation right now. Pakistan has in past and even now playing a definite role in taking the responsibility towards islam. What do you infer by statements of gen.kiyani. its true that right now things may not seem to you very hopeful about pakistan army but believe me, take some patience. everything needs times. We have pro pakistan and pro western elements in the armed forces. Whatever is happening, allah is showing us to take refuge in our own self. After all we ve had people like general hamid gul also. You may not know but they still do have a great leverage in pakistan army. We ve had people like mushaf ali meer and frankly its only a matter of one person in armed forces. You do not need to worry about all the 7 lac personnel of armed forces, its only one person, the heads that are needed. Im very hopeful about pakistan armed forces in this respect because i also believe that the physical requirements of the war of end times are only sufficed by pakistan. you cannot fight wars with swords against f22s. even in ghazwa e badr, there was a quantitative difference but not a qualitative difference.

      The last decade was unfortunately the result of one bad decision. Pakistan may have apparently played a bad role but pakistan has done alot and is still doing alot for afghanistan. i strongly believe, these things are just a matter of time. You get one good leader with a team, all things can be fixed in no time. Please dont hate pakistan army for that, because its not a force of mob but one of the best civilized armies in the world. They have to abide by the decisions of their chiefs. you can have your own ideas but i believe this privilege is for pakistan army and pakistan alone. it may join forces from khorasaan or khorasaan forces may join it, its doesnt matter but i believe pakistan will lead this. and remember prophet also said that he feels cool breeze from hind.

      what i mean by saying that Shaikh gives little or no importance to Pakistan is that he cannot feel the passion about pakistan in the way you and i can feel, its really no surprise that people think that pakistan is on the verge of collapse. whats important is that im optimistic in saying pakistan will lead and will have a major role, is shaikh also advocating of that? tauba is different stuff, you and i cannot say that people are not seeking allahs forgiveness. I know what dr.israr said in that ulti ginti speech but remember that he also believes that there is still time for tauba. And frankly i believe, there is a great deal of tauba going on in Pakistan now. Again, you can have you own views, but i believe Israel is a threat to pakistan but cannot harm pakistan as such bombing it and all as you might think or as shaikh believes or implies. I believe, pakistan is not a country but a phenomenon. Allah looks over it Himself.

      You said: “Sheikh Imran Hosein’s view is simple “If Pakistan continues to be a friend of USA then its destruction is assured””

      You tell me, are matter between pakistan and usa really friendly or friendly any more? Can’t you feel a change ? i can. I just wana say, we as a nation sometimes acts too impatient. Bear through brother. Nothing comes up overnight.

      and frankly speaking, i really have to say that shaikh lacks the secrets of Allah regarding pakistan. i also think that ahadith of ghazwa e hind are kept out of importance to give this privilege to pakistan. These are far fetched things that you mentioned in saying that pakistan is naozubillah abandoning allah and his orders. you tell me, are you sure that is the case ? Brother, there really are people who are seeking Allahs forgiveness. Shaikh is right that raju to Allah is solution to our problems but you and i or shaikh cannot give a ruling that pakistanis are not seeking allahs tauba.

      Of course the choice is ours and im sure we have made our choice. the only thing im basically advocating here is that im very optimistic about pakistan and its future. shaikh may be warning us and we take lessons from him and scholars like him but at the same time we remain optimistic, because the effect of optimism is the one that zaid hamid has created. the effect of pessimism is the one which unfortunately talks like pakistan is getting destroyed or will be stuff has created.


  16. @ Layla

    I am in complete agrement with you on your above reply. I know Molana Imran Hosein personally. With due respect to him, I differ with him on the stance he holds about Pakistan. All that you have written above regarding this aspect, I 100% agree with you.

    I agree with Molana Imran Sahab’s assessment of the world view. But he seems to consider Pakistan a meaningless country in the whole end times context, which I strongly disagree. I consider Pakistan a secret, which will unrevel in due course of time INSHALLAH. And that Allah had a special plan in his wisdom for Pakistan. The way Molana Imran Sahib describes the destruction of Pakistan is unpalatable to me and I have written him many times. I think Molana Imran Sahab need to do more research on the issue of Pakistan. I am sure he is going to grasp the nature of Pakistan in a completely different way. I once again say, I regard Molana Imran Sahab extremely high. He is a genuine and genius scholar we are blessed with.

    I agree with you about Dr. Israr’s point of view that before the appearance of Mahdi, an Islamic state would have been established and it makes perfect sense to me, otherwise, there is no question of a khorassan army arising to fight the world’s most advanced weapon system possessed by the west and Dajjal. Pakistan’s military strength seems to make perfect sense in this scenerio. If carefull observation is made about how Pakistan (Mashallah) is progressing in the military field, it makes perfect sense.

    In his this recent issue of “MEESAQ 2001 JAN” please read the article “Mahdi, caliph #1, 3 or 3”. Please visit his website http://www.tanzeem.org. and read this article.

    Just imagine, if Pakistan would have not come into being, would Indian had let Muslims make an atomic bomb within India? I am sure no.

    What would have been the world geopolitical situation NOW, if there had been no Pakistan.

    Things become absolutely clear that Pakistan is acquiring, in the slow hitorical process and as time goes on” the role of an emerging power. Pakistan acquires the status of a hidden secret, to me, which would menifest in due course of time, Inshallah.

    Pakistan army cannot be blammed for a wrong decision taken by one stupid top leader. Now we are paying the price for his wrong doing.

    To me, we need to start believing in ourselves and work towards strengthening Pakistan. I think, the sequence of events and their discussion is not important at this time, but our contribution is.

    Pakistan Paindabaad


    • Thank you imran chaudry, i hope ive not hurt anyone’s feelings here including imran’s.

      i believe that we all are on the same page on common grounds. its true that without seeking Allah’s forgiveness we cannot stand anything but i believe a great deal of nation has gone back in taking its refuge in Allah and at least im seeing an effect here.

      I also think that shaikh is a great scholar with a good research in which he basically sees israel taking a leading role from usa. now that may be right or not but my disagreement is that he links israels role to destruction of pakistan, which is not acceptable to me. you may call it love for pakistan or other greater signs which zaid hamid has explained too but to some extent doesnt seem to fit logical for me. we do not call his research wrong or anything, its only about agreement or disagreement and that too partial. infact, you can have partial disagreements with anyone because no one is perfect here. sometimes, i have disagreements with dr israr or zaid hamid also, but those are little things and can always be sought out. we should think above petty issues.

      and i also think that if you believe in the two nation theory of pakistan, its ideology of islam, its rationale and that its protection is giving protection to islam and its destruction is damage to islam, i believe its right to say that you are willing to die for pakistan. although i know, one should live and die only for Allah, thats 100% right and that should be our utmost aim but believing in pakistan in the way i wrote here also brings it at par with striving and dying for islam. the only condition is that you know that pakistan and islam go hand in hand.

      Thank you for your comments.


      • @ Layla

        No I don’t think you have hurt anyone’s feelings.

        I understand Imran’s point of view as well.

        Thanks for nice comments and discussion. This is exactly what I like, instead of non-productive talks.


  17. @Hamza
    I agree with you.
    I will go step further to say that Mush extended his term beyond 2004 because,at that time,the generals in line may not have been that capable of becoming COAS.Though Mush had to face the criticism but he made a good decision.


  18. How funny…. a Pakistani COAS talking about what he wants for another country. How f**king arrogant can this fellow get? I wonder what the Pakis would say if Gen Kapoor outlined his vision for Pakistan. I just wonder how you guys would react?


    • Afghans are more likely to be happy with Pakistan giving it a vision THAN at least India telling them about Bollywood, Pornywood, castes and extremism and brahmined democracy. Guess that answer’s your question. And if it doesn’t you will when they give you the welcome you deserve, the minute you set afoot in Afghanistan.

      Please try your luck too, after all if all the world has/is going in there, why should bharat be left alone. It’ll cry itself to death.

      Good luck boys.


  19. General Kiyani is much better person …..earlier i was thinking that he will be similar like Pervez Musharraf ……but he is totally different …….still waiting for his stance towards the Afghani Mujahideen!!



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