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Indian Army Chief’s Outrageous Admission of Armoured Debacle Stuns The World

January 16, 2010

—General Kapoor says Indian army does not posses ability to fight armoured combat at night
—Army Chief shameful admission makes Defence Minister Antony chew his buts
—India’s numerical tank supremacy over Pakistan eliminated by Armoured Corps’ night blindness
—India Arjun Tank eats dust while Pakistan Al-Khalid MBT remains a success story
—India’s missile systems remain shady as nation celebrates 62nd Army Day

By Makhdoom Babar
(Additional reporting by Ajay Mehta in New Delhi & Hina Kayani in Rawalpindi)

While the Indians celebrate 62nd Army Day, country’s Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor, just after a couple of weeks of announcing a new war doctrine of Indian army to eliminate Pakistan and China in matter of hours even if it has to fight on simultaneous fronts, outrageously admitted Indian Army’s Armoured debacle and expressed concern about the force’s ‘night blindness’ in the area of Armoured Corps and mechanised infantry. ‘My major concern is that night blindness of the army is removed so we are able to fight in the night as in the day,’ Kapoor said at New Delhi Yesterday, an admission that stunned the world in the back drop of his two weeks old remarks. The situation also forced Indian Defence Minister Antony to chew his own buts as he had been endorsing and projecting General Kapoor’s announcement regarding the new war doctrine for Pakistan and China Earlier, when his attention was brought to the fact that the Indian Army’s tanks have a night vision capability of 20 percent, Pakistan’s have 80 percent while China has 100 percent, General Deepak Kapoor admitted this outrageous military debacle by saying: ‘You are right.’

‘Projects are already in the pipeline to ensure that we have the night vision capability that our adversaries have. It may take three-four years,’ Kapoor added. The lack of night vision capability of the Indian Army has affected its fighting capability during the night. The deficiency has been persistent since the Kargil conflict.

On a query about the obsolete artillery of the Indian Army, the army chief said that successive bans have delayed acquisition of new guns for long. ‘Artillery is a cause for concern. We need to have better guns. Trials for towed guns are underway. Because of bans the process got delayed. We are now acquiring (ultra light) guns through FMS (Foreign Military Sales) route (from the US),’ Kapoor added.

The Daily mail’s investigations into the matter reveal that despite a numerical strength of tanks over Pakistan, Indian army otherwise armoured and infantry capabilities are even below average if compared with Pakistan Army. According to these findings, Indian armoured corps comprises around 4, 059 tanks with a backup of 1, 133 as reserve while Pakistan Army’s Tank strength is 2,401 with a backup of 270 as reserves. However this numerical supremacy of Indian army is outraged with the fact that Indian armoured corps relies mainly on its Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun which emerged as a big failure while Pakistan Army’s armoured corps’ main strength has become Al-Khalid MBT which is a great success story, endorsed across the world. But the latest admission of Indian Army Chief about failure of its armoured corps to fight a battle in the night time is an additional and a rather huge disadvantage to the Indian Army and crystal clearly negates the claims of Indian Army Chief regarding smooth victory in case Indian army has to fight a war with Pakistan or China or even both at the same time.

The Daily Mail’s findings further disclose that India’s MBT Arjun is more flab than brawn. More a heavyweight than a performer. A potpourri really, with a French engine, and German seals fitted into an Indian hull and turret. And transporting this heavyweight is going to be another problem, which could limit its operational performance.

These findings further indicate that Arjun has indeed suffered throughout its development, from confusion and inexplicable delays and by imbalances between the Army, the DRDO and the bureaucracy. Pakistan by contrast, has drawn a lesson from the Indian experience and avoided the trap of over lasting her R&D’s indigenous know-how in the development of its MBT Al-Khalid.

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that Arjun mounts a 120mm rifled gun deadly in lethal power but wanting in accuracy. Its performance in various trails was reported to be anything but up to the mark. It is believed that during in March 1990, General V. N. Sharma, the then Army Chief of Staff and an armoured expert, was “quite wild” when only three of the five rounds hit the 5X5 meter target and no hit was scored against a moving target.

According to Major General M. L. Popli (retd.) of the Indian Army, Arjun’s production was basically planned as an ambitious project with complete indigenous components and assemblies but it was later revealed that the Arjun’s sub-systems were all imported except for the hull and the turret. The imported assemblies include all major sub-systems such as engine, transmission, track-suspension, gin and fire control. Our experts are of the view that their integration, “leaves much to be desired”. The auxiliary power unit from France did not perfectly fit in the tank, with the German seals not meeting the General Staff qualitative requirements of withstanding temperatures up to 150 degree Centigrade. The barely measured up to 120 degrees. Arjun is therefore quite a “fuss” with the French engine, with German seals fitted into the Indian hull and turret mounting a not very accurate 120mm gun.

Armoured experts say that another problem thrown up by the heavyweight is its transportation. Arjun could present a lot of problem for transportation by railways particularly through certain portions of the system. This imposes very serious limitations on the Arjun’s operational performance. In most of the field armies, the tank transporters and assault bridges are not usually designed to take such heavy weights. These aspects mostly highlight the engineering and operational problems.
According to The Daily Mail’s findings, global military analysts say that Pakistan adopted a step-by-step approach towards the manufacture of its MBT-2000 Khalid, and this is the single most important reason for having stolen a march over India. They are of the opinion that the Indian project was too ambitious, whereas Pakistan’s approach was more systematic comprising the following phases and that was why Pakistan Army got a well prepared MBT while the Indian Armoured Corps was equipped with huffing, overweight and inaccurate Tank system.

The Daily Mail findings indicate that clear technical and professional edges of Pakistan Army’s Armoured Corps over Indian Army’s Armoured Corp are valid reasons to make General kapoor a really apprehensive Chief of Indian Army. These findings indicate that Pakistan’s MBT-2000 Khalid mounts a 125mm gun with thermal image converter. Maximum efforts were devoted to getting the machine souped up as possible mainly to cut down weight. Just compare the 60 tons Arjun with the maximum 44 tons Al- khalid.

It is essential to mention that Al-Khalid is equipped with 105mm gun with a more powerful engine, special armour for increased protection in the indigenously built laser range finder and thermal image sighting system to maximize the gun range even in the hours of acute darkness, enabling Pakistan Army’s armoured Corps to enjoy a complete technical and professional Supremacy of over Indian Armoured Corps; a fact that now worries Indian Army Chief the most. Further more, Al-Khalid MBT has an integrated fire control system for reducing engagement time and increasing accuracy, along with the automatic fire support system. This tank’s most lethal component, the penetrater ammunition called Armour Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS), is also being indigenously produced. This project has been designated P-87. Currently, a series of such closely related projects to manufacture hull, turret, gun barrels and engines are in various stages of planning-execution. All these will finally merged into a tank manufacturing factory that will produce MBT-2000 Khalid.

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that despite the disgraceful admission of the Indian Army Chief regarding Indian Armoured Corps’ inability to combat a battle in the night, the Indian Army is already going through a very depressed and dejected phase and many of the missile systems, given to the Indian army have also emerged as seriously faulty and rather super-flops battle tools. These investigations indicate that many of the tests of Missile systems, carried out by Indian DRDO and declared officially as successful, have actually got a highly dubious result history.

The Daily Mail’s investigations reveal that the failure in rapid succession of Astra missile system, a satellite launcher and a new ballistic missile have shown up the technological and budgetary difficulties faced by India’s space establishment, both civilian and military.
These investigations indicate that India’s intermediate-range ballistic missile “Agni III” that was launched by the secretive Defense Research Development Organization (DRDO) failed soon after liftoff and crashed into the Bay of Bengal, less than 1,000 kilometers away from the launch site.

The failure of the Agni III was a very serious matter because it exposed the political limitations of India’s attempts, despite its ambitions, to pursue a military capability.

The surface-to-surface ballistic missile, designed to have a range of 3,500 kilometers, took off in a “fairly smooth” manner at the designated hour. But “a series of mishaps” occurred in its later flight path.

Earlier, India decided to postpone the missile test out of fear that a test could hamper US Congressional ratification of the India-US nuclear cooperation deal. Publicly, the then Indian Defense Minister cited “self-imposed restraint” to justify the postponement.
However, General Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US military, visited India and declared that “I do not see it [a test] as destabilizing” or upsetting the regional “military balance” since “other countries in this region” (read, Pakistan) have also tested missiles.Following this “facilitation” or clearance, and after indications of favorable votes in US Congressional committees on the nuclear deal, India’s stand changed. A week later, the DRDO announced it was ready to launch Agni-III.

This was the ninth missile in the Agni series (named after the Sanskrit word for “fire”) to have been tested. The first was tested in May 1989. The last test (Agni-II) took place in August 2004.

The Daily Mail’s investigations indicate that unlike major powers including the US, Russia or China, which test the same missile 10 to 20 times before announcing that it is fully developed, India considers only three or four test flights to be enough for both producing and inducting new missiles and thus ended up with inaccurate results and the success story was announced in a hasty manner.

These investigations disclose that this was not the first time that the test of an Agni series missile failed. As earlier, some tests of the shorter range Agni-II (range 2,000 kilometers-plus) also proved unsuccessful. However what made the Agni-III’s failure significant was that unlike its shorter-range predecessors, it was a wholly new design, developed with the specific purpose of delivering a nuclear warhead.

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that Agni-I (range 700 to 800 kilometers) and Agni-II were both products of India’s space program and connected to its Integrated Guided Missile Development Program (IGMDP), itself launched in 1983. Originally, their design used a satellite space-launching rocket (SLV-3) as the first stage, on top of which was mounted the very short-range (150 to 250 kilometers) liquid fuel-propelled Prithvi missile.

The Agni-III’s brand new design, in which both stages use solid propellants, was to enable it to carry a payload weighing up to 1.5 tons and deliver it to targets as far away as Beijing and Shanghai. At present, India lacks an effective nuclear deterrent vis-a-vis China, based on a delivery vehicle carrying a nuclear warhead. Agni-III was meant to fill the void.

The causes of the failure of the test flight are not clear. Scientists at the DRDO, which designed and built the missile, have been quoted as saying that many new technologies were tried in the Agni-III, including rocket motors, “fault-tolerant” avionics and launch control and guidance systems. Some of these could have failed. Other reports attribute the mishap to problems with the propellant.“The DRDO isn’t the world’s most reliable weapons R&D agency,” Admiral L Ramdas, a former Chief of Staff of the Indian Navy, told The Daily Mail. “The Indian armed services’ experience with DRDO-made armaments has not been a happy one. Their reliability is often extremely poor. We often used to joke that one had to pray they would somehow work in the battlefield,” he added “The figure of the budget of DRDO is extremely high for a poor country like India, with a low rank of 127 among 175 countries of the world in the United Nations Human Development Index,” said Anil Chowdhary of the Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace. “Yet the DRDO has delivered very little.”

The Daily Mail’s findings indicate that none of the three major projects assigned to the DRDO were completed on time or without huge cost-overruns. These include the development of a Main Battle Tank (MBT), a nuclear power plant for a submarine, and an advanced Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), all involving expenditures of hundreds of millions of dollars.
“The primary reason for these shocking instances of underperformance and inability is lack of public accountability and oversight of the DRDO,” says M V Ramana, an independent technical expert attached to the Center for Interdisciplinary Studies in Environment and Development, Bangalore.
“The DRDO, like all of India’s defense and nuclear service establishments, is not subject to normal processes of audit. It has used ’security’ as a smokescreen or shield and refused to be held to account,” he adds.

The Daily Mail’s investigations disclose that Pakistan, in sharp contrast, has always accorded high priority to its air defence management, with its multi-tier surveillance cover, air defence fighters, quick-reaction, short-range missiles and an integrated control and reporting system.

The Indian Armed Forces, however, continues to make do with its obsolete air defence systems, The IAF, for instance, has aging Pechora, Igla-1M and OSA-AK missile systems, and that, too, in woefully inadequate numbers. While Trishul was to replace its OSA-AK weapons system, Akash was meant as a substitute for Pechora.

The Daily Mail’s findings reveal further that But both the Trishul and Akash air defence missile systems, which are part of the original Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme launched as far back as 1983, have been dogged by development snags in their “command guidance and integrated Ramjet rocket propulsion” systems.

Trishul, for instance, has been tested over 80 times so far without coming anywhere near becoming operational. It was, in fact, virtually given up for dead in 2003 after around Rs 300 crore was spent on it, before being revived yet again.

Trishul’s repeated failure, in fact, forced the Indian Navy to go in for nine Israeli Barak anti-missile defence systems for its frontline warships, along with 200 Barak missiles, at a cost of Rs 1,510 crore during the 1999 Kargil conflict.

The Daily Mail’s investigations reveal that India’s missile scientists are on record to have said that the country’s indigenous missile programme is flagging and needs foreign assistance to revive it.

The embarrassing admission came amid claims by Indian analysts that Pakistan’s missile programme had proved to be more robust and surefooted than India’s. The Mail Today, an Indian newspaper is on record to have quoted the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) as announcing that it would scrap its 25-year Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) very soon.Talking about the Trishul surface-to-air missile that has now been termed a technology demonstrator, former Indian Naval Chief Sushil Kumar said:“It was a national embarrassment. DRDO made fake claims for 25 years. In the 1999 Kargil conflict, the Navy was vulnerable to attacks from Pakistan’s Harpoon.

“Finally the project was scrapped when the Navy went in for the Israeli Barak missiles. The Prithvi’s naval variant, Dhanush, is also flawed and ill-conceived, which is being inflicted on the Indian Navy. Former Air Chief S. P. Tyagi said:“Akash was to be ready at a certain time, but it wasn’t. I had to change everything to make up for the delay.” Both missiles were part of a programme to develop indigenous weapons, which began in July 1983, with plans for Agni, Prithvi, Trishul, Akash and Nag missiles.

The IGMDP, which was aimed at achieving self-sufficiency in missile development and production, comprises five core missile programmes; the strategic Agni ballistic missile; the tactical Prithvi ballistic missile; the Akash and Trishul surface-to-air missiles and the Nag anti-tank guided missile.

Indian newspaper, The Mail Today quotes S. Prahlada, Chief of the Control Research and Development, DRDO, as saying that development and production of most of the futuristic weapon systems would henceforth be undertaken with foreign collaboration.
With regard to the nuclear-capable Agni series, comprising I and II, the newspaper quoted army sources as saying while they had been tested five times each “a handful of tests are not enough to prove a missile’s worth”. There were different problems with other systems too.
“Pakistan has always been one step ahead of India in its missile programme,” the newspaper said, adding that Islamabad has “a much more robust missile force than India, one capable of launching nuclear weapons to any part in this country.” Unlike Indian missiles, which were declared “inducted” after a few tests, the Pakistani projectiles have always been thoroughly tested.

With this state of affairs in the direction of the missile systems, coupled the Armoured Corps’s inability to combat a night vision battle, one should must salute the Indian Military leadership to have come up with the announcement of evolving an innovative war doctrine to crush Pakistan as well as China and that too in hours’ time.

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63 comments

  1. could be very much true. this is Indian incapability basically otherwise all the world is helping it. however, all war is based on deception. Pakistan needs to be even more equipped and ready now to counter all kinds of threats. india is going through massive acquisition of modern weaponry and the world is readying and equipping it to go to war with pakistan and china. a major us think tank today said that another 26/11 is expected with india to go to war with pakistan following it. the stage is set, curtains drawn. we are ready hindus.


    • HAHA…

      1. india’s defence minister is a christian
      2. india’s PM is a sikh
      3. india’s main leader sonia gandhi-christian
      4. indian troops in 71 war was led by a PARSI general.
      5. pakistan’s surrender in 71 was accepted by a SIKH general.

      i dont think its the hindus u should worry about


    • interesting….
      1. india’s defence minister is a christian
      2. india’s PM is a sikh
      3. india’s main leader sonia gandhi-christian
      4. indian troops in 71 war was led by a PARSI general.
      5. pakistan’s surrender in 71 was accepted by a SIKH general.

      i dont think its the hindus u should worry about


      • @ jeeves- underwear

        Dude, are u an idiot ?..The president of pakistan is a shia muslim ?…Does tokenism really display the majorities mindset ??… or does it rather force the minority to work in the majorities interest ??.

        I think ur some sort of a wise ass moron…who doesnt have a clue of what he’s talking about !


      • @ Billi.ali

        just bcos pakistan does tokenism. does not mean india also does that idiot.

        the only moron here is you


      • @ Sher.Ali

        You are intelligent person.

        I am trying to make him (ask.jeeves) understand the same thing. But he does not understand me.


  2. Correction in the article, AL-Khalid’s gun is a smooth bore 125mm gun and not a 105mm gun.


  3. I do not believe in this. This could very well be a “false pretext” and a deceptive strategy to present Indian army justified in aquiring advanced weaponry. Hindus are never satisfied with anything they have. Even if they’d have the most adavnced weapons, they would still cribb and shiver.

    Hindu mentality is built on coward nature. If their opponent has a small pistol in his hand, they will first strip him off of that pistol, make hue and cry about huge danger the pistol posses to them and once taken away, will strip the opponent off his clothes, they would tie him down and render motionless, then stun him and to make him unconscious and finally use a machine gun to killl him.

    In the end, thei boast of their bravey to the world. Chankeya doctrine?

    NEVER TRUST HINDUS, NEVER NEVER, WHATEVER THEY SAY..


    • like he wrote above…

      1. india’s defence minister is a christian
      2. india’s PM is a sikh
      3. india’s main leader sonia gandhi-christian
      4. indian troops in 71 war was led by a PARSI general.
      5. pakistan’s surrender in 71 was accepted by a SIKH general.

      i dont think its the hindus u should worry about


      • I wrote about cowardly Hindu mentality, which is 100% true.

        Don’t try to use another Hindu distraction tactic, which is to bring other irrelevant topics in, like Sonia Gandhi, PM, defense minister etc, 1971 war etc.

        I am NOT talking about these issues.

        I am only talking about coward Hindu mentality.


    • @ Imran Chaudhry

      hindu’s are cowardly? dont be so hopefull.

      ever heard of the GORKHAS?


      • @ ask.jeeves

        I am writing about cowardly Hindu mentality which is 100 % true to the core.

        Now, don’t use this distracting Hindu tactic of bringing irrelevant topics in like Indian defense minister, Indian PM, 1971 war, Parsi, Sikh, Sonia Gandhi etc.

        I am talking about these. I am talking about coward Hindu mentality and coward nature.


      • it might interest you to know that pakistani army thought the same thing, and paid for it dearly.

        Read This:
        Qayyum Sher told Siddiqi, “Miracles he mused, ‘may indeed have happened, but they happen only once. Let me tell you that your press chaps are doing a lot of harm to the soldier psychologically by publishing all those foolish stories. I wonder what they are really trying to tell the world. That the Pakistani soldier can fight his war only with the help of his celestial allies. That he is facing an enemy inferior to him in all respects. I admit God’s help is of the utmost importance but it’s no substitute for one’s own performance. It would be quite stupid to forget that the Indian soldier is as much of a professional as his Pakistani counterpart. He has been trained in similar military systems and institutions and fights like hell when he has to. The only reason why the Pakistani soldier put up a comparatively better performance in this war was that he fought largely on his own home ground as a defender”.


      • @ ask.jeeves

        I am talking about Hindu coward mentality. Talk about that. Don’t distract the issue.


      • @ Imran

        read my previous post. “hindu coward mentality” is a pakistani myth. dont deviate.


      • ask.jeeves

        No myth, its reality. Hindu mentality is built on coward nature. If their opponent has a small pistol in his hand, they will first strip him off of that pistol, make hue and cry about huge danger the pistol posses to them and once taken away, will strip the opponent off his clothes, they would tie him down and render motionless, then stun him and to make him unconscious and finally use a machine gun to killl him.


  4. Has the Indian army chief really said anything to the effect?

    Daily mail investigation HAHA.

    Fist of all it calls the AL khalid a pakistani tank,which it is not.

    The al khalid is bulit with help of Norinco of China.It has a Ukranian main gun,FCS and Engine.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khalid_tank

    ALL ITS major systems are either Ukranian or Chinese.

    Pakistani tank indeed.

    The same mail,that called Indian women BSF battalion prostitutes.

    What!the Indian army will call this paper to India to conduct an investigation.

    Does daily mail have that low opinion of Pakistani intelligence.

    Pakistan seems to get more desperate by the day.Are media reports,that too half baked ones supposed to protect Pakistan.

    The article is not accurate at all.

    Arjun tank is not bulk of Indian Tank fleet and it does not have a french engine but the German MTU engine as in leopard.

    Indian army has one regiment of it and max 124 are expected to be built

    Bulk of Indian Tank forces are Russian T-72-M and T-90S.

    T-90 is an ultra modern and fast Russian Tank.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90#India
    Arjun tank

    The arjun stands deployed.Its a heavy western design design tank,with heavy armour.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_tank

    T-90S and Arjun come ALREADY come fitted with Thermal Imagers or night sights.

    The T-72 is being upgraded under a project called Rhino with ERA and Thermal Imagers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_operators_and_variants#India

    Whether India is able to make trishul or not is irrelevant on the ground.

    India has acquire far more sophisticated Israeli Spyder System.

    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/india-to-buy-israeli-spyder-mobile-air-defense-system-02702/

    It is also equipping its armoured fleet with swedish LEDS-150 self protection sysytems.

    http://officialsite.my/tempur/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=335&Itemid=2

    No Pakistani tank has such self protection system with hard and soft kill options against ATGMs,kinetic munitions,RPGs.

    Wishes and fantasies will not defend pakistan!!!!


  5. […] […]


  6. Its interesting to note that india faced similar technichal problems in 71 and 99. but still did not change the outcome of the wars


    • Again, don’t be over smart here.

      Don’t use cunning distracting tactic by bringing in 71 and 99.

      You should remember 62 and 65 if your context is Indian technical problems.

      Hindu mentality of distraction.


    • @ ask.jeeves

      Again doing the same stuff. Don’t try to be foolishly over-smart here.

      If you really want to talk about Indian technical difficulties, talk about 62 and 65.


      • india faced similar difficulties in 71 also.

        Read This:
        Tajammul thus stated, “We had Patton Tanks whereas Indians had mostly Sherman Tanks which were comparatively much inferior. Similarly our artillery guns out ranged the Indian artillery guns. They had an overall superiority of infantry, perhaps of about 1 to 2 but most of their divisions were comparatively ill equipped and untrained and they had to guard a much bigger frontier”. 43


    • Read my earlier response. Concentrate on 62 and 65 in that case.

      Using the Hindu distraction tactics at best.


      • 62- Sino indian war

        India was unprepared when chinese launched a suprise invasion. indian troops were outnumbered 5:1, unequipped, unprepared.
        bcos the chinese were considered as peacefull. THIS REMAINS AS THE ONLY DARK STAIN IN INDIAN MILITARY HISTORY

        65 indo-pak war
        india lost less troops and gained more land despite inferior equipment. so its obvious.


      • Where did you read that about 65? Its all wrong, you know that, don’t you.

        Now you are asking for trouble?


      • my sources are nuetral.

        what are yours


      • I haven’t claimed anything to tell me sources. You claimed, go ahead tell me where did you learn this.


      • Look up wikipedia. I was laughing about the Muslim Martial Race nonsense that Ayub was peddling. Awesome… It’s brilliant that you guys continue to over-estimate yourselves. Achcha hai. Carry on


  7. @ everyone

    Gurkhas claim descent from the Hindu Rajputs and Brahmins of Northern India,

    Gurkhas are best known for their history of bravery and strength in the Indian Army’s Gorkha regiments and the British Army’s Brigade of Gurkhas.


    • Duh….

      Now you are trying to coverup Hindu cowardly issue. Truth is bitter. Gorkhas are well know for killing innocent unarmed women and children, raping and killing them.

      Is this the definition of bravery for Hindus, to rape and kill women and children. In every encounter of Muslims and Hindus, the hindu rulers used to “run away” leaving the forces and armamnet behind…….

      “Clap Clap” “This is Hindu bravery…….
      Clap
      clap
      clap


      • i see

        then why is it that the british praised them for being the most bravest in the world?

        why is their statue present in the London square?

        why did Gen. Sam Manekshaw say – If u r not afraid of dying, u r either lying or u r a GORKHA.

        gorkhas are aknwoledged worldwide to be fearless. trust me. u guys cant stand u to them.


      • As opposed to Pakistani bravery shown when 300,000 Bengali women were raped and 90,000 troops became PoWs. Very brave haan… very very brave.


    • @ ask.jeeves,

      I am talking about hindu coward mentality. Stay on topic.


      • That’s right. Hindus are cowards. That’s why we captured 90,000 PoWs in 1971 and chopped you in half. And that’s why we wiped out the Northern Light Infantry in Kargil in 1999 and that’s why our economy hasn’t gone into a recession while you are now a basket case. I’ll tell you what – you enjoy your MBT and we’ll enjoy watching you use it against your own people in Waziristan and Balochistan….


  8. @ Imran

    “Most Pakistanis are made to believe that muslims ruled over hindus. but the reality is that muslims were saved from a complete defeat from the hindus by the coming of the british”

    Maj (Retd) AGHA HUMAYUN AMIN
    Pakistan Army


    • @ ask.jeeves,

      I am talking about Hindu coward mentality ONLY.


      • bravery/cowardiance is an individual trait. it is not confined to any relegion.

        do u have any proof of ‘hindu cowardiance’?


  9. BTW,

    bringing irrelvant issues in a topic is just like sending a virus in a computer to cripple it’s functioning.


    • u have not read my posts fully, so how can i help u?


      • I have read your posts but they are not relevant. Thats why I am asking for relevant information.

        I am asking you to write about Hidnu coward nature. Is that thing hard for you? You are a Hindu, don’t you?


      • 1.all my posts have been about that

        2. i am an athiest


      • @ ask.jeeves

        I know you feel ashamed off calling yourself a Hindu, thats why you declared your self an atheist…..


  10. @ask.jeeves(Bindusara boy)

    You have said it all.Your Manekshaw comment speaks for itself.
    How much is your Gorkha army.May be 1% of the total.So the rest,99% of the army,when they say that they are not afraid of dying are telling lies.Proves cowardice,may they be atheist,Hindus
    of any nomenclature.I am not saying this.Manekshaw said it.
    Now,think twice or thrice before you dream of messing up with Pakistan.


    • no paki, my point was that gorkhas were known for their fearless nature and that they are hindus.

      most people here assosiate hindus for cowards
      -innacurate and amusing

      what gives u guys the idea that pakistan army is braver than indian army, i will never know. maybe u suffer from low IQ


    • @ Paki

      I completely agree. ask.jeeves does not read carefully.


  11. Our forefathers rouled India in one form or the other for 1000 years. Our knowledge of the Hindu civilization is based on first hand knowledge and experiance.

    During these 1000 years we never imposed our way of life on our subjects. While the holy book forbid any such undertaking it is my personal opinion that had such an enterprize been undertaken then our history would have been completely different.

    Any one with a historical memory will understand that Hindustan will never make real peace with Pakistan. Hindustan is out to get us.


    • during the muslim invasion they converted and killed 80 MILLION hindus.
      (Adolf Hilter killed 5 million jews)

      so ur fore fathers were probably hindus forced to convert to islam


      • Nice disinfo propaganda sh*t you got going. Problem is, we know it is just that.


      • The muslims killed 80 million hindus !!!

        WOW

        and only one sucker survived and its U !!!


    • Jeeve

      We are not talking about one killing the other. We are talking about Hindu coward nature. stay on topic dear.


  12. Are you kidding? seriously,,,,,,,,what this implies? Is Indian Army Chief asking the world to support India with more weapons????? What’s the game???? Sorry……..i didn’t get it……seriously


  13. if muslims wants to kill hindus there would have been hindu left in sub continent remember muslims ruled india 1000 years


  14. The indians are again wining from their asses to their fathers israel & US, to give them weapons which actually work !!!

    All the weapons given to the dumb indians are already obselete.

    The latest fighters SU-30MKI which they got from russia are all grounded because of major technical issues including obselete parts.

    They have 16 submarines, but 3 actually are capable of going to sea !!!

    The aircraft carrier Virat, called pride of india, has gone to sea once in 5 years !!!


  15. AND BTW talking about whining,India BUYS weapons at its own terms,with its own money on COMMERCIAL TERMS.
    WE DO not have to compromise our soverignity or pride.

    WHy do yu think the pak army sasy nothing about the drone attacks on itself.
    Why does Zardari not protest.

    Without MIlitary/IMF aid,pakistan would simply collapse.

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/14-us-almost-doubles-military-aid-to-pakistan-zj-06

    ANd if yu really want to know what whining is,read this:

    Federal Finance Minister Shaukat Tareen deplored the failure of Friends of Democratic Pakistan (FoDP) to honour their pledges as so far no substantial inflow came from that forum.

    “It is nice about talking to help Pakistan, however when it comes to give Pakistan the funds pledged in the meetings, the situation looks quite contrary,” Tareen told newsmen on Tuesday at the sidelines of a seminar.

    He was particularly dejected about the role of USA to help Pakistan financially and release the amount committed at the FoDP forums. “USA people meet us and discuss only one thing or the other rather than to materialise their commitments,” the finance minister regretted.

    Tareen even went on to say that attitude of USA with Pakistan is disgusting and they consider us untouchable.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20091230story_30-12-2009_pg5_1

    Besharmi aur begairati ki bhi ek hadh hoti hai!


  16. I’m glad you Pakis are getting a little bit of joy in learning of Indian ‘failures’. After all, you have nothing better to look forward to. Your economy is a basket case, your nation is a hell hole of terrorism, no one trusts you, even the Chinese do not like you any more. So yeah, continue to laugh about your achievements – and continue to fool yourselves.


    • Rather be a Paki then a Gandu,pee drinker or idolater!.We broke you in 1947,ha,ha,ha!!!


  17. @rajk

    The real face of indian military equipment.

    Arjun: Project started in 1974 and even after 36 years still not operational.

    http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/72-8409.aspx

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/what-went-wrong-with-lca-arjun-tank-akash/429935/

    LCA: Project started in 1985 and even after 26 years not operational.

    Barak missile system:

    Source http://www.indianexpress.com

    “Israeli showpiece anti-missile system fails Navy’s tests, hard work ahead

    SAIKAT DATTA

    NEW DELHI,NOVEMBER 22: The Indian Navy’s latest Rs 1000-crore Barak anti-missile defence programme, acquired from Israel, received a setback last week when it failed to hit its decoy target off the Mumbai coast.

    Highly placed sources said the Barak defence system was tested twice from the Navy’s indigenous showpiece, guided missile destroyer INS Delhi.

    The Barak missiles’ test target was a Russian surface-to-surface missile with a deactivated warhead.

    However, rather than destroying the Russian target, the missile is said to have taken off and plunged straight into the Arabian Sea. The same thing happened in the second round of tests.

    http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/lofiversion/index.php/t22931.html

    http://www.indiadefence.com/barak.htm

    Nerpa nuclear sub:

    The nuclear submarine involved in Russia’s worst naval disaster for eight years was destined to be delivered to the Indian Navy.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5125926.ece

    Good Luck !!!

    indian navy also had a nuclear sub “INS CHAKRA” from 1998 – 2001, but was returned to Russia because could not be maintained .

    VIRAAT: “a 50 years old cow”

    What can a 50 year old piece of junk without any aircraft do. I guess become a target …..

    Following a series of crashes since induction, the navy is now left with just 10 Sea Harriers of the at least 20 it had bought in the mid-1980s.

    http://www.livemint.com/2009/08/25222315/Navy-grounds-Sea-Harrier-fleet.html

    BVR Missils:

    Putting a big question mark on the performance of the Russian beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air missiles with the Indian Air Force, an audit report by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) has noted that nearly half the missiles tested either did not home in on targets during evaluations or failed ground tests because they were ageing much before their shelf lives.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nearly-half-of-russian-airtoair-missiles-with-iaf-have-homing-ageing-problems-cag-report/490055/

    The CAG report, which will be released soon, is based on evaluations of the missile — its range is close to 90 km — during ground tests, inspections and test firing by the IAF. The missiles were bought at a “cost of Rs 2 crore each” but their failure during tests, says the CAG report, has affected the “operational preparedness” of the IAF.

    Su-30 MKI problems:

    The IAF grounded its fleet of approximately 55 Russian-origin Su-30s after one of the aircraft crashed last week. Generally, an entire fleet is not grounded if an aircraft of a particular type crashes. In the case of the Su-30, however, there have been “recurring complaints” by pilots about problems with the jet.

    The grounding of the Su-30 fleet has given rise to the alarming possibility of “structural faults” with the aircraft.

    http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/russian-experts-summoned-as-iafs-sukhoi-fleet-still-grounded_100188671.html

    http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/hawks-grounded-after-accident-pilots-safe_10043716.html

    “The preliminary investigation into the accident reveals that the reason for the crash… is likely failure of the fly-by-wire system,” Defence Minister A.K. Antony said in a written reply in the Rajya Sabha. “There is no indication of any serious problem in the maintenance of aircraft by the IAF or any short supply of hardware as the cause of the crash,” he added.

    http://news.indiamart.com/news-analysis/systems-failure-caus-22261.html

    Scorpene’s:

    The delay in the construction of submarines has raised concerns for the Indian Navy which on Dec 22 said that its underwater capability would be reduced by 50 percent by 2015.With the construction of French Scorpene submarines at the Mazgaon Shipyard delayed already, the follow-on construction of six indigenous submarine has also suffered.

    http://news.indiamart.com/news-analysis/delay-in-submarine-c-23772.html

    The real indian defence picture.
    If I start psoting links to problems in indian defence equipment, it would take ages’s to read, but I guess these are enough for now..

    cheers..


  18. HAHA, hey guys guess what:

    Indian Army chief suffers hearing loss: TOI

    Guess, he is blind too, and a retard too. haha.


  19. Arjun Tank:
    1st regiment completed. Balance delivery to be completed by May 2010.

    http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/may/25/army-first-arjun-tank-regiment-ready.htm

    http://frontierindia.net/album/main.php?g2_itemId=1053

    BTW do not forget that we have 1000 plus T-90s and 1500+ T-72M/CI improved with ERA/thermal imagers also.

    Barak Missile:
    Old 2003 news! That is why there are tests and trials.
    12 out of 14 trials hits.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/navy-chief-stands-behind-barak-drdo-readies-trishul-burial/14842/0

    Apart from Viraat several others IN ships like Delhi Class destroyers too carry the Barak

    LCA: An advanced country like the USA took almost 20 years to fully operationalise the F-16. India has tried to do an original design from scratch.
    The China designed and pak assisted JF-17 has taken more than 20 years also. It also had foreign help and it was from an already EXISTING F-& chengdu design.Still it took so long to finally come.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder#Development

    The LCA is continuing on with its trials BTW.

    http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/10/first-images-lca-tejas-trials-at.html

    R-77 BVR Missile.

    The good (and Bad?)thing about civilian control is that the armed forces are subject to open civilian scrutiny. This is not the case in Pakistan or China. BUT,it may be pointed that the CAG is a civilian auditor which audits purchases made in the PAST years. The R-77 is one of the best and cheapest BVR missile.What is being pointed out is age related and stock related issues. Obviously early induction series will show greater problems. As time passes the trends get more settled.

    These issue were/are rectified over time.

    http://eng.ktrv.ru/news/company/153.html?PHPSESSID=8d0bb347ba9e0a5e289faae676f4b358

    BVRs are very complex sytems. The US AIM-120 is supposed to be on of the best, yet see its initial history.

    –The Advanced Medium Range air-to-air missile (AMRAAM) was manufactured by Hughes Aircraft and Ratheon. Built jointly by the Air Force and the Navy at a cost of $15 billion, the missile system was to track and destroy four planes at one time. In 1987 and 1988, the GAO reported that the Air Force rushed the new missile into production before conducting crucial tests under mock conditions. In 1989, the Air Force requested $1 billion to build 1,600 missiles before it proved its performance and reliability. In May 1990, the Pentagon approved $2.4 billion to begin producing 1,480 missiles. According to the GAO, the missile failed every 90 minutes on the test range. Yet the AMRAAM was supposed to average 450 hours between repairs.

    http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/jphuck/BOOK3Ch15.html
    Kindly see the horror stories of other weapons.

    Weapon failures are not unique.
    Su-30 MKI

    Every aircraft ever deployed has crashed sometime in its history.
    Ever hear how the F-22 the most sophisticated fighter in the world has also crashed.The B2 billion dollar stealth plane has also crashed. Ever checked how many Pak F-7ps have crashed.

    The 2 Su-30 MKI crashes(in a ten year period) showed a FBW software issue and engine fire. Both rectifiable and rectified.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/su-30-mki-fuel-leak-behind-engine-fire/550249/

    If one starts thinking about the reasons you have given, no aircraft in the world would ever fly.
    Scorpene.

    I have already said that submarines are a problem. BUT with 9 deployable subs, 2 NERPA class nukes, India is well placed against Pakistan. China is the worrying issue.

    Brahmos:

    Again, going on a single news item. What you do not want to see that this was a Brahmos BLOCK II test for the Indian army. This was a new sensor require high level of discrimination and clutter rejection, UNLIKE the ant-ship version. The defect was identified and the missile tested SUCCESSFULLY again after a month.

    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?656957

    You live in a military controlled society where the civilian government cannot even scrutinize any defense related matter.

    When the USA, Britain, ,Russia have problems with their weapons and are able to induct them over years of experience and time, I find it very hard to believe that Pakistan has no issues reported.In fact you should worry what problems are lying secretly buried. What use of it coming out NOT during peace but at times of need.


  20. NEW DELHI: Army chief Deepak Kapoor suffers from hearing impairment after exposure to heavy booming sound of artillery guns during a demonstration
    on anti-terror operation in the US in July last year.

    The disability, which puts him in a low medical category, will fetch him 20 per cent extra pension after his superannuation in March, army sources said. (a good way to get more pension)

    Kapoor realised about his hearing impairment after he underwent examination at the Army Research and Referral Hospital in November last year.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Army-chief-suffers-hearing-loss/articleshow/5477584.cms

    WOW, a deaf Army chief. no wonder he say’s a lot of garb, as obviously he cant hear it himself.


  21. DRDO has always came up with unreliable inaccurate weapon systems that too after major delays and the defence forces had been forced to induct these systems terming it as indegenous..all these systems were proven failures when actual test done in field conditions… drdo proving itself a white elephant thus eating up the money for security thus comprimising national security.



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