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US Betrayal As Pakistan Army Launches Waziristan Offensive

October 19, 2009


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PKKH BREAKING NEWS EXCLUSIVE
PakistanKaKhudaHafiz.com

US and NATO forces have deserted the Paktika province bordering South Waziristan as Pakistan Army launched a military offensive on Saturday.

Highly credible sources have informed BrassTacks that as Pakistan prepared to launch a full-scale offensive in the last few days, the US and NATO queitly pulled out of Afghanistan’s Paktika province that lies on the Afghan side of South Waziristan.

Pakistan had mobilized its armed forces to surround and control exit and entry points for South Waziristan ever since the governor of Pakistan’s North West Frontier Province announced a ground offensive in South Waziristan on 15 June. Following the brazen attacks on Pakistan’s security forces in the last week that included an attack at Pakistan Army’s headquarters, the armed forces decided to launch a full scale military offensive in the early hours of Saturday, pounding targets using fighter jets and helicopter gunships in an effort to nuetralize the threat from militant bases high up on the mountains. The military has succeeded in taking control of the heights and put up outposts.

The terrain in South Waziristan is said to be easier to fight on compared to the Swat valley which is more densely forested.

With troops and artillery advancing towards Mehsud tribe stronghold Makeen from Ramzak in the North, Shakai in the South and Jandola in the East, the only escape route for militants in South Waziristan is towards Afghanistan’s Paktika province in the West, which had seen a rise in numbers of US and NATO soldiers in the last few months. With the surge in numbers of US and NATO troops in Afghan provinces bordering Pakistan, fears were raised that it will push militants into Pakistan as Americans set up outposts and bases in the region.


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With the start of Operation ‘Rah-e-Nijaat’ looming, the decision from the US and NATO forces to vacate this key region allowing militants to escape or seek reinforcements from the Aghan side of the border is nothing short of a betrayal of epic proportions. The US drones which have struck with impunity in the past could have been effectively used to help Pakistan Army’s offensive in South Waziristan – however they also seem to have come to a halt as the offensive started.

The army’s plan to hold the roads as well as main towns including the Mehsud-dominated centres of Ladha, Makeen and Sararogha will be made more difficult due to this American betrayal as militants can now easily disappear into Afghanistan as well as seek reinforcements. Pakistan has presented evidence to the US and Afghanistan in the past of Indian involvement in supporting the TTP militants with funds and weapons through the Paktika province as well as the Indian consultats in Jalalabad and Kandahar.

Leading Pakistani defence analyst Zaid Hamid of BrassTacks informed PKKH that in order to ensure the destruction of militancy in South Waziristan, Pakistan Army must now ensure they cut off the militants’ supply and escape route into Afghanistan by securing the border between Paktika and South Waziristan. At the same time Pakistan must target known militant hideouts and bases inside Afghanistan.

Since US and NATO have been striking targets in Pakistan alleging them to be militant / Al-Qaeda hideouts, Pakistan must also safeguard its national security interests and strike targets inside Afghanistan in order for the operation in South Waziristan to succeed.

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69 comments

  1. BlackWater was Involved in Attacks on Peshawar and GHQ as it wants Muslims in Pakistan to Fight against each other Stop this American War on our Soil


  2. doesnt matter we have ALLAH power.pak army will succeed INSHALLA.this time operation is more serious and i have read ispr statement where they said they block the exit route to afganistan for TTP TERRIOST.
    maj ather abbas said we will not let any terrorist to run in afganistan inshalla.


  3. why give us all this anti-americanism if you support pak army which is gaurdian of american supplies and the one who lent bases for initial asssault?
    why???


    • is it not the duty of “elected democray” in isb to stop Nato supplies?


      • this was all set up by the army, and the serving coas at that but just not by the coas but the whole upper levels of the instituition. elected government only came about 1.5 years ago. dont expect this weak government to overule the army.


    • you said it bro this army and the Government are enemies of Islam and muslims, they will do everything their white masters tell them to do.Everyone is talking about a whole lot a “shit” but no one is standing up fot “what is right” no solutions are we suppose to fight back agains yankees or killing our own people and also allowing them to drop missels with drones, the hell with our being a nuclear power.


      • amna, pkkh, zaid hamid reply to this post


      • Leh! Then those bearded mullah who killed fathers going to work and made thousands of orphans are guardian of Islam? Please, Pak fauj is the only institution to be worth something in islamic world.

        May ALLAH give Pakistan army victory and crush those Taliban who are most of them Jahil.


    • Jambo,

      Pakistan Army is NOT the gaurdian of US interests. Pak Army has always made decisions in the interest of the Pakistan. Where our democratic governments failed, Army came for help. Army is one of those few factors that are keeping the ship of Pakistan from sinking.

      Musharraf was not givena choice in this matter. He was threatened into submission. Whether it was justified or not, If Musharraf didn’t support the US initially, Pakistan’s fate would be like Iraq. I agree that mistake was made by Pakistan at that time and as Zaid Hamid puts it “Musharraf didn’t define the rules of engagement and didn’t take the most out of this God given situation.”

      I can tell you that Pakistan is NOT stupid to not learn from the past and lay down all the cards. One needs to move with wisdom in these volatile circumstances. Even Holy Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) had made Hadaibia pact the injunctions of which were heavily against Muslims.

      I think General Kiyani is really doing a tremendous job here. He has taken care of Swat and now engage in Waziristan. Inshallah, Pakistan will have a victory here soon.

      It is unfortunate that those muslim militants are fighting against the Army instead of making pacts with it to fight common enemies. Whatever mistakes Musharraf did is the thing of the past. It is not wise to retaliate against the whole Army or state of Pakistan for the wrongs of the few.


      • Excellent reply Ashir, I totally agree.


  4. pakistan has put in alot of hardwork to make its tribal population turn to terrorism, all for america and you still give us this ‘anti americanism’. be fair and give us ‘anti pakistanism’!!


    • What purpose would this ‘anti-Pakistanism’ serve you or the cause of Islam?

      You are just punishing the whole state of Pakistan (which includes the innocent civilians) because they deserted Afghans. I agree that it was the bad thing to do but neither you nor me can understand the intricacies of politics. None of us know what were the true circumstances on hand.

      Muslims fighting with Muslims are only serving our enemies; making them strong.

      I ask you can those militants forgive Pakistan and join hands with Pakistan Army for the establishment of an Islamic state?

      I doubt it. Loyalties of militants lie with our enemies. Baitullah Mehsud is on record to threaten Lashkar-e-taiba commanders to stop Kashmiri resistence or be ready to die. Whose interest this statement serve?


      • available from any news source

        ”Hakeemullah Mehsud, the new leader of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, on Thursday said his group was ready to stop its attacks if the government stopped “following American orders”,”

        i do not support terrorism by state or non state actors

        may god forgive pakistan and its army for any avoidable suffering brought to the tribal people both sides of the border


      • Jambo, this confusion that you and many other commentators have is EXACTLY what the problem is. TTP is working as the unoficial wing of the CIA-RAW-MOSSAD nexus and we are suppsoed to belive the tripe that comes of that b@st@rd Mehsood’s mouth? How does this work? They get paid by their US masters and then they issues these pathetic statements which are supposed to make us believe that they fighting the same people who are feeding them, training them, giving them money and arming them!!!!!!!!? This war is as much psychological as it is on the ground and you really need to start believing the truth rather than the lies being told to you by our mainstream media.


      • the future will reveal all @sumayyaz


  5. This operation should not have been launched until we got more militar aid from usa, us paid its 1.4 billion debt and we had plans for IDPS


  6. Either win or stop the war:

    A Call to Win…
    October 17, 2009 by Philip Edwards

    The 1970’s along with President Jimmy Carter’s embargo against Russia, because of their invasion of Afghanistan and America’s eternal war against the spread of Communism and Socialism, helped to create the Taliban army of Satan as it received the support of our prosperous War Economy. Russia bad, Taliban; freedom fighters? Our Industry of War built Satan’s army. Today, Russia bad is George W.’s friend Putin and our kissing cousins?

    Today’s the Taliban are evil’s stink, a one-eyed monster called Mullah Muhammed Omar. History’s art places his kind crawling across canvas and chapel ceilings. Taliban’s Armies are Women Killers, Gollum warrior’s, killers of peaceful humanity in their Religion of Evil.

    The United States began its correction of Taliban’s stench on the night of October 7th, 2001 with bombs of deodorant well placed north of Kabal.

    Now, eight years later October 17th 2009, instead of destroying what is evil, the Taliban Army is stronger and its attacks more deadly. Poppies buy many weapons. Afganistan armies are the products of War Lords rich by American dollars and not to be trusted.

    Stop fighting a government. Stop our fear of Communism and the Socialism that may save our own Country…We have to fight a war of Religion. This is not against a force of Muslims. The Talibans are the army of our own Devil. Destroy this evil to the last creature standing. These are not men. These are crawling and ugly cowards. They worship the blood soaked earth they have created.

    Ask our “kissing cousins” to join us in the last sweep of evil from Afganistan’s war beaten and weary folk. President Obama, do not continue to play with this war. Instead, destroy this evil. Your Nobel Prize for Peace is safe. Warfare and Satan’s armies will continue, however, the stink of this nasty Taliban creation must be eliminated.

    Take no prisoners. Show no mercy. Use the strength of the strongest army on this sweet Earth to win!

    May our God both help and forgive us…Amen…


    • Edward,

      If Afghan Talibans are evil, then why are they winning? Simple answer: Their stance is justified. God protects this human race mysteriously. He ensures that the falsehood perish and Truth prevails.

      The sages say, “Absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Who is the sole super power in the world today? It is United States. In their arrogance, borne out of their sense of power, Americans have been bullying the nations of the world into submission using various ways: toppling of popular governments, installing ruthless ‘democratic’ or military rulers,target assasination, planting assets, buying loyalties and an all out war.

      Americans have problems with everyone. I mean EVERYONE. Be it Russia, Vietnam, Venezuela, Columbia, Libya, Germans, Japan, China, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Indonesia and the list goes on.
      The whole world CAN NOT be wrong. It gotta be America who is at fault. How do we know that? Your insiders have revealed your secrets to the world and when we look at where the circumstances are going, we can tell that those reports were correct.

      Afghan Taliban came to unite the fighting tribes of Afghanistan. They brought peace. Being a sovereign nation, they had every right to rule according to whatever system they want to follow. America had NO reason to interfere. They also make deals that they consider are good for their nation. Using their God given freedom of choice, they turned down UNOCAL offer.

      Guess what happened next? Afghanistan was attacked, Talibans were thrown out, and Hamid Karzai was installed who was, NOT SURPRISINGLY, an ex-employee of UNOCAL.


      • Edward,

        One piece of advice for you: Don’t waste your energies trying to convince Muslims of the “angel like face” of America.

        We know very well the games that USA has been playing. You can fool the ignorants with your rant but NOT those who read.

        America is the terrorist that has terrorized the world for the last 100 years. You guys are nobody’s friend. You have deserted Pakistan on many occasions. You have even broken your treaties. Your recent was the invasion of Iraq inspite of a UN resolution against the attack. You have killed Cheye, Mossaddiq, Liaqat Ali Khan, King Faisal and others. You support insurgencies in the countries that you want to conquer. Now you are after Pakistan, Russia and China. You were the one behing the Chinese Student rebellion of the 90s and recent Iranian student rebellion. You were the one who raised the “persecution of women” flag in Afghanistan. You made false videos and presented the facts wrong as to steer the opinion of public to suit your taste. You are the supporter of the BIGGEST terrorist in the world i.e. Israel (an army of evil destined to HELL) who mercilessly kill Muslims who are unable to protect themselves.

        You are an ASSHOLE to come to our site and tell us that Muslims are evil. You BOZO, you think We don’t know the fuck that you are doing


    • Mr Edwards, let me just write a very brief message for you. Dear brother in creation, i’m surprised (should i be?)as to how badly misinformed and ignorant you are! i really do not have an inkling as to where you get your ‘facts’ from. US does not have the greatest army on earth, you have numbers and equipment and i’ll give you that. however, the thing you lack is ‘balls’ and the stomach for a long and attritional conflict. you lose strategy and heart very quickly. what constitutes a great army in your eyes constitutes a very weak army in mine and i’m sure many people would agree with me. as regards Mullah Omar, now let me see. just what exactly do you know about him? the Taliban has good elements and bad elements, just like the American nation – a few good men and many bad men. Our job is to decipher which ones which, you clearly dont know that. The ‘Pakistani Taliban’ are an organisation that you are covertly funding and arming along with the sycphantic help of the Indians and Israeli’s in order to destabilise my homeland!! now what do you say to that sir? if i tell you other things, for sure your ‘balls’ will pop out of your mouth! Mullah Omar is fighting the occupation forces, for Gods sake man wake up !! you have invaded his country so what do you expect him to do, welcome you to his table with food and Afghani chaaye???!! WTF? knowledge is surely power. my advice to you is read and study the facts abit more, eventually you will discover the truth – the only condition is you must possess a brain, some rationality, forget that you’re an American and think yourself as a human first. are you up for it? good luck. tosser!


  7. Mr. Phillip M. Edwards,
    This article and other evidences have clearly shown that it is USA who is on the one hand posing to fight terrorism and on the other hand supporting them. When Pak Army launched full scale operation to neutralize much publicized Taliban and hideouts of Al Qaida from Pakistan side, Why US and NATO pulled out their army? Why are they not using drones to hit hard running Taliban? From where these Taliban getting Millions and millions of dollars and arms?. Surely from Afghanistan. Why are the not sealing their border. Pakistan is now at war with terrorists created by USA and India.


  8. Guys, all of you who have posted above and others who read this: share this story on Facebook (press the button at the bottom of the item) and mail it to your local newspapers!!! We should be screaming about this! Smack this story to whoever has had any sort of tendency to tell Pakistan to ‘do more’, is US/NATO doing anything at all???

    Start sharing now!!!


  9. well not only US Betrayal but afghan betrayal as well. as news in jang


  10. Yet again another American betrayal to Pakistan after Afghanistan and USSR war ….. And still our idiot political leadership runs behind them and counts then as our FRIEND …. Although we are fighting their imposed war, we are their biggest ally in this war against terror, we are the front state and still they ran away leaving us deserted …. open your eyes you stupid government and start to distinguish who are your friends and who are using you against your own citizens …. in simple words …. LEAVE


  11. I thought South Waziristan had been cleared up a long time ago. USA has been playing with Ego centricism of our Generals who carry it plenty. I have read Peter Chamberlin’s article AQ;a Website where he argued that Pak Army will be tricked into attcking these areas and that will prove to be disastrous.

    I dont know Mr Chamberlin but I trust Zaid Hamid and Ahmed Qureshi’s Opinions. We have been talking about PPP, PMLn, MQM, and others who have become the right and left hand men of countries who are after this nation’s land, Nuke or blood.In all this where our Army or rather our Generals stand. I have watched BBC documentry on Swat Operation and the General incharge was very proudly claiming that we are trying to save the world as Mr Zardari put it in front of the so called friends of Pakistan.

    We know that we have countless traitors in our political structure that has been invented and supported by these Generals. My worry is not the polititians at hand as they are ready to fly off as soon as they rape and rob this nation proper and run to feed their family with fire and blood of this nation. Its the ones in the army who insist on killing and had always kept this nation under their thumb and once they had enough of this bounty they always thrown this nation to the wolves under the watchfull eyes of their masters (USA,UK or whoever afford to pay Dollars).

    This nation is not going to be saved under none of the above. If this country came into being in the name Islam then none of current rulers, let it be Civilian or Military, can save this country. This nation will Inshallah be saved and raised to highest standard of human values provided we change ourselves individually.

    To conclude, all the polititians of Pakistan except few are betraying this nation big time and Military Generals knowingly or naively encouraging this state of affairs in Pakistan. May Allah help us and make us to understand the importance of Ikhlas in our actions.


    • Shahid,

      I disagree on your stance against the Pak Army and your belief that some Generals are serving US interest because they said “they are trying to save the world”. Why are you taking this statement literally? Don’t you know what diplomacy is? Remember when Pak Army started Swat operation, there were many criticism against it in the West.

      You said:
      <>>

      That will never happen. Individuals changing themselves individually can take years. All we need is a group of loyal, joshilay, Pakistan and Islam loving Pakistanis to start a movement and have these corrupt politicians thrown out. It is the politicians that have destroyed Pakistan. Not the Army. We will need this very Army to support ourselves in this movement. This movement can sustain within the bounds of democracy. We are not to destroy anything. We are to show our displeasure.


      • I do not know whom generals and their troops serve on cost of life, economy, stability, integrity, development and image of Pakistan and its people either it is case of U2 spy missions, CETO and SENTO pacts, Neutral role during indo-china war, both Afghan proxy wars, toppling of governments with military copes, military operations on political grounds in all provinces, rigging in elections or expedition like Lal Masjid. Can anyone recall General’s speech giving justifications of joining hands with US against Talibans? Has anybody moral courage to let people know how much general’s wisdom proved right, how much people were deceived and disinformed, how much loss in all terms cited above had to anchored during this course of time? Can any body foresee what had been situation if resources were not wasted in plans conceived by these military tops, instead had been utilized in health, education, public welfare, industry, trade and development. Why corrupt, self above law declared culprits are given protection on institutional pressure.


  12. I am not a defence analyst to say whether this operation should have been started. I support it on account of the recent militant violence. But I do want the Pakistani Military leadership to listen to the advice of Zaid Hamid. His suggestion is right on the money. We should not only secure our borders with Afghanistan but also attack militants hideouts inside Afghanistan.

    This is going to be a decisive war. A tough resistance will be offered because it is sort of the last frontier. If USA-supported Pakistani Taliban will make every effort to not loose it because if they do, they might be forever defeated.

    I am saying ‘might’ because USA will not take that defeat of Pakistani Taliban. Why would she afterall she has been the one supporting and nurturing Pakistani Talibans for her own political interests?

    USA will continue to be involved in supporting insurgencies, mayhem and violence in Pakistan in the coming months.

    So, my dear Pakistanis brace yourself and NOT loose hope. Since loosing hope is kufar.


  13. all the western media is implying Pakistan army is loosing and Taliban will not give an inch !

    btw why was my comment about ISI working with CIA to spread carnage in pakistan removed ?


    • Western media is playing a very slick game. They are portraying USA as the champion of democracy and a hope against “terrorism”.

      Before Pakistan army was accused of not taking any actions against the militants. When Pakistan started operation Rah-e-Haq in Swat, the same western media was opposing this move (playing double standards). They are doing the same thing in this Waziristan operation. I have been reading news articles that make double statements. They, outwardly, show their support to Pakistan but at the same time make suspicious statements.

      So, I don’t really trust the western media. It is heavily controlled. To your coment about ISI and CIA, if it was anti-pakistani, then PKKH did the right thing to remove it. We don’t wanna hear the false western regurgitation against ISI. I am too sick and tired of that. This is a Pakistani forum and we need to hear our voice/perspective which never gets a spot in the Western media.


  14. western media will use this propaganda to defend their existence in Afghanistan … have we forgot the fact that world’s media is controlled by JEWS to control people’s minds to keep them in their slavery??? this is just another example of that … ISI is an organization of Pakistani patriots I find it hard to believe that its working in coordination of CIA … its nothing more than just another propaganda to make Pakistan army and Pakistan intelligence agency look bad …


  15. Nothing But “Jihad” is the answer to all our problems,just establishing Islamic Sharia will eliminate all issues in Waziristan and Baluchistan and perhaps the rest of the secular(maybe 1 or 2% of population) Pakistan will either hide or get the hell out of Pakistan.


    • You r a retard!

      Go and hide in ur cave. Pak army is coming for u in Waziristan and Baluchistan. And then there WILL be peace.


      • sorry man you are a real retarded scum and your days are numbered haramzada hai tu haram zada kafir kee aulad.


      • lol.

        Now ur true spirit of JEHAD is coming out.
        Your version of Khilafa is never going to happen. lol

        You r the problem in Pakistan. You r the fake Jehadi. We and our Army is fighting u people. You create problems all around the world. But ur days are numbered. We have killed ur Baitulla Mehsud and now we will clean the reset of the cancer in Waziristan and Baluchistan.

        You can continue your fake JEHAD on us and we will continue the REAL Jihad on you. And we will see who will win.

        BTW we have already won in SAWAT area 😉

        1 for us
        0 for u

        LOL


  16. Edward,

    The US created a monster for the world, like a failed lab experiment. Mullah Umer and Usama bin Laden were used and misused by the US during the war. And afterwards US did what it does best, betrayed taliban.
    I am not pro taliban, i dont agree with the definition of jehad that involves suicide attacks on the innocent. yet i have serious issues with US going around the world and attacking innocent people for lame excuses.
    You create a mess and ask us to clean up. why cant you ahve your own soldiers killed? you want all the power in the world why take it at the expense of a Pak Armys blood.
    US Army has FAILED all wars despite the best of equipment and supplies and support of all nations. Because all those wars have no conviction behind them, they are barbaric actions against the innocent to gain power.
    I am sorry for 9/11 and who knows who did that, but even if Usama was involved who gave you a right to kill a million people after having a few 100s of your own killed.
    I ask you a question if Usama and Mullah Umer hide in the US would you start bombing your own country? Our people are just as speacial.
    You have failed economically and militarily why bother other countries with your lame policies when they couldnt serve you any good so far.
    unless your people want another shoe thrower on another president…back off and mind your own business in the boundries of your own country


    • Well said Asma but I like to clear one fact. Afghan Talibans have NEVER committed suicide bombings. I have never heard of any such incidence associated with them. This is a VERY important point to remember. Pakistani Talibans have been created to discredit Afghan Taliban. Pakistani Taliban is a splinter group and have committed, and continue to commit, these senseless murders. They are backed by US to create a situation of anarchy to have a justification to either attack Pakistan (on another false pretense of war on terror) or seize control of her nuclear capabilities.

      It is not difficult to think, if Pakistani Talibans were fighting for Islam why were they quite when hoarders were hoarding Sugar, Rice and Flour. Why didn’t they rise up and punish those involved? Why they don’t do anything against corrupt politicians? Why they don’t attack India who has controlled our waters? Don’t they realize that Muslims will suffer?

      Afghan Taliban ruled strictly over Afghanistan. I am not going to comment on their form of government just because my source has been a heavily BIASED/politically-driven western media. They have a record of blowing things out of proportion and presenting “facts” in the wrong light; even going as far as outright lying. Whatever,the Afghan Talibans were doing, they were doing it in their own country. They were buidling an Islamic Welfare state. They were making deals to improve their economy. They had NOTHING to do with 9/11 but they were still dragged into it just like Pakistan.

      Afghan Taliban had the full right to hold grudge against Pakistan but these people never attacked the state of Pakistan. Instead Mullah Omar had been telling Baitullah Mehsud to work with Pakistan against the Kuffars.


  17. http://ahraza.wordpress.com/2009/10/18/bring-them-to-justice/

    The current bombings in Pakistan are definitely a cause for concern. It is unfortunate that after a successful military operation in Swat and surrounding areas, these shameful militants still take pride in the loss of human lives. Then again, it is difficult to expect them to respect the value of life once they become suicidal and so keen on killing others. The Kerry-Lugar Bill is another operation that has exposed the lack of respect journalists have for others as well. From fake stories, to conspiracies and downright lies, Pakistan’s media has seen and done it all.


  18. The betrayal is actually phase two of the operation: to weaken Pakistan by tying down army resources and naked and increasing interference in Pak internal affairs via the KLB.

    Phase one was the preparation for this over the last eight years, as well as the NRO. And clearly, phase three will be some kind of foreign “boots on the ground” on Pak soil aimed at neutralising Pak military capabilities, dismemberment and the stealing of the riches of Balochistan.

    It is, frankly, way too generous to call this a betrayal, when this is nothing short of a declaration of war.


  19. we must not forget always the indian facter . when we talk of 1971 war we biker and forget the indian factor.usa cannot pressureize us alone there is always indian army at our borders at the beheast of usa. remember we have been give the task to fight the only idol worrshipper.


  20. oi mr ‘jambo’,

    tell me one thing,

    u said TTP is attacking us for our pro-americanism, right?

    So answer these simple questions:

    1) if TTP has so much guts and resources to attack GHQ for ‘pro-americanism’, then why doesn’t it simply attack US bases of operation in afghanistan? Infact, how many losses has TTP inflicted on the americans anyway?

    2) Why has afghan taliban leadership denounced attacks by TTP on Pakistan?

    3) Why has TTP spokespersons denouced the Kashmir Jihad, which is a true Jihad (they denouced on the basis that it is a ‘Pakistani’ movement and will not result in ‘Sharia’)

    4) Why has TTP stated that they don’t recognize existence of Pakistan according to ‘shariah’.

    I think TTP is motivated in their own minds by a false ideology, but since they are extremists, they can also be easily manipulated. That is what is happening here. Do you think Mossad and RAW are stupid? Both have alot of experience in understanding the muslim psychology. And when it comes to extremists, it simply becomes easier. All they (the Mossad and RAW handlers) have to do is say alhamdullila and mashalah a few times on the phone, and voila, the chap will be ready to lay down his life for you. Even the Imam of Khana Kaaba has warned the Muslims of the world in his previous Hajj sermon that the muslims should be wary of the fake jihads going on.

    Finally mr ‘jambo’, since i know you are an indian, i shud just tell u to f** off, i mean, don’t u hv anything better than to troll on pakistani forums?


    • i think you should leave countering me to Asher, he has a better understanding then you of the rights and wrongs before the terrorism started. the answer to your questions no 1 and no 2 can be found coming from one of your leaders, ex pres. musharraf. watch at 06.30minutes in the interview at ” http://pkpolitics.com/2009/10/14/point-blank-14-october-2009/ ” the interview is called point black 14 october at pkpolitics website.

      in your other questions you are underestimating the hate for pakistan state now coming from fata. you have lost their confidence of your religion.10,000 fighters must have a cause beyond helping raw.

      im a pakistani


      • Well well jambo..some very legit questions were posed by cheeta to you. But you have no answer for this do you? Please dont give us links to Musharraf’s videos..answer the questions urself..and what’s with ‘you have lost their confidence of your religion’bit? Interesting.I think that you indeed are trolling here! well, ur gonna have to try harder dude.


      • the q’s posed to me have been disproven.
        musharraf is the leader of this strategy so his answers carry weight so you can consider question1 & 2 answered. if you doubt the answer i have given then you are either closed minded or dont care

        if my questions and queries are bothering you too much then i’ll be off myself. the questions and doubts will rage on in the country!!!


      • ” It is not wise to retaliate against the whole Army or state of Pakistan for the wrongs of the few”
        ^quote from asher, whom you congratulated yourself

        this an admittance of the complex situation, you dont have it all your own way

        i think most of you are not intelligent enough to actually discuss this situation (asher is an exception)


      • Mr ‘Jambo’, Ashar is a nice guy with alot of patience for wimps like you, but dont use that to justify yourself, and please, i know how much of a pakistani u r dear….

        For the information of every1 here, Mr ‘Jambo’ has called Pakistan Army ‘napak army’ which is a clear-cut and oft-repeated indian propaganda slogan. (in this article’s comments: “With Friends like the US, Pakistan Doesnt need Enemies, dated Oct 17”).

        I would advise my friends here to be wary of the pre-pubescent kids from india trolling the forums.

        Now get lost ‘jambo’ and take your ‘jambo’ sized brain with you.


      • Jambo,

        I guess I am nice guy until you read my posts carefully. 🙂 I want to make it clear that I am in no way suggesting that militants are justified. These militants are clearly the agents of USA. True that they have brainwashed some innocent Pakistanis of tribal belt but that does NOT translate into majority’s opinion. Swat people had welcomed the military intervention and they have formed militias against those extremists.

        Jambo, you should answer the questions posed to you directly. Don’t give any links of Musharraf since it is not relevant and is an attempt on your part to beat about the bush.

        Good questions Cheetah! it slipped off my mind that TTP never attacked the NATO supplies. It was Afghan Taliban’s group. They never attack American or Indian interests. American drones don’t attack them. Americans were tricked into attacking Behtullah Mehsud. That is the reason Americans never whole heartedly support Pakistani endeavours in Swat or Waziristan.

        I don’t support TTP.


      • if pak army has done all this because it was not strong enough to fight back US aggression then i kinda understand, but if its any, any other reason then pak fauj is commiting a genocide and has been since it started. in this regard its understandable, of a tribal unofficial state army, ttp has been forced to take up arms in which they’re no1 target is pakistan for the sheer betrayal

        @asher your posts do contain inaccuracies and contradictions (im not going to nit pick) but you said you believed its for the greater good. i’ll accept that to some extent but you should realise weakness has led to this situation. charity case weakness at that. the only obsticle in this theory is that musharraf who officially endorsed it is speaking about it in public, as if the united states dont even care and yet the war on poor tribal people continues both sides of the border. it makes you think if a conspiracy is being used to hide the truth keep the WOT killing machines rolling

        alot also depends on how pakistan deals with northwaziristan in the future.

        i’ll leave it at that

        i want total peace in pakistan, a peace which comes before a civil war and not after it


  21. Jambo,

    You need to understand the great AfPak game. Then everything will fall in its place. Many people have already spoken about it both in Pakistan and outside of it such as Zaid Hamid, William Webster, Alex Jones, and American experts on Asia.

    Pakistan is, purposefully, cornered. According to this game, pressure has to be exerted from Western and Eastern side along with internal instability. All these things are in full swing. We have Indian and RAW presence in Afghanistan which are supporting these TTP to create mayhem in Pakistan. They attack just the important institutions so easily with state-of-the-art equipment which even Pak Army does not possess. This gives a nicely crafted justification to concocted American claims:

    “that Pakistani nukes are not safe and we fear that ‘terrorist’ will get hold of these and then the world would be in real trouble.”

    This TTP is simply following the orders of their masters. In the past, they have attacked Pak Police Academy, GHQ, Hafiz M. Saeed, and have also made claims that they have access to nuclear facilities.

    So, now you tell me how can I believe that TTP is fighting for the just cause? They were never. Pay more attention to when these problems started. Since 2005, we have this problem of TTP and Baluch insurgency. Before that we never had this issue. This marks the start of foreign interference in our affairs. It is easy to conclude all these supposed “mujahideen” are really being part of this great game against Pakistan, in particular, and Islam, in general.

    Whatever I said so far is purely on the basis of logic and common sense. TTP attacked Hafiz Saeed while a court session was in swing. Allah(swt) protected him. Who is interested in Killing Hafiz Saeed, a leader of Jamat-ud-Daawa? INDIA. This suggests the involvement of RAW’s support behind TTP.

    Since the true mujahideens, i.e. Lashkar-e-taiba, Jamat-ud-daawa, and Deccan Mujahideen, are fighting against the oppression of Kuffars against the Muslims, India will naturally be inclined towards eliminating them.

    It is not difficult to put two and two together. Come on man, use some common sense!!!


  22. “WE’ll pitch them one against another” George.W.Bush said in his first speech after 9/11. Whoever is right or wrong, the fact is that our enemy has succeeded in making us fight us each other.

    Allama Iqbal must be wondering at our forces who are “HO HALQA E YAARAAN TOU FOLAAD KI TARAH SAKHT.. RAZM E HAQ O BAATIL HO TO BARESHAM HAY MOMIN”.

    Pakistan Army must establish its writ everywhere including airspace raided by drones otherwise people would say that they have double standards for those who are weak and for those who are powerful.


  23. theres no common sense involved, its all theories and general news based opinions. theres enough evidence to suggest my fears, in previous posts, are true.
    i have been onboard to your linee of thinking before, but the worsening situation makes you rethink. surely pak army could have handled the situation better. the pure numbers of militants festering in pakistan right now is unbelievable. you even have ‘punjabi ttp’ now. its a growing problem, which cannot be explained by raw funding alone

    over everything pak must keep its nuclears and allow muslim nations to take their place among the league of nations as equals in the future

    i will go back into a neutral position as a result of your writings.
    thanks


  24. By the way, jambo’s posts were quite realistic. Why can’t people tolerate a difference of opinion ?!


  25. <>>

    I am not going to start another debate but those are news items; not some opinions or theories. It is sad the facts are in front of you but you keep ignoring them or trivializing them. You mentioned that we have ‘punjabi ttp’. You might be thinking that those are real concerns. I am sitting here thinking that the AfPak game is going on as planned.

    RAW’s (or India’s) involvement in Pakistan dates back to Pakistan’s origins. Nehru had struggled to make sure this nascent state dies her own death. He was behind starting all the known troubles in Pakistan. He supported GM Syed, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, Unionist Party, Baluch and Bengali Separatists. All through the 80s RAW has been involved in creating Sunni-Shia divide, Muslim-Christian clashes, Provincialism (Sindhi, Baluchi, Punjabi etc.). There is even a report on the net regarding RAW’s activities. They look for any possible conflict and start instigating it. Their latest stint is ‘Saraiki Province’. What business does India have to hold the World’s first Saraiki Conference in India? This punjab TTP created to add feul to the fire. Another division has been started and that is of Gilgit-Baltistan assertion. The movement for full freedom is in full swing. So far they have been successful to get a separate province Identity. Next they will demand provincial autonomy and later declare independance using this autonomy. Do you know Gilgit-Baltistan provide Pakistan of her ONLY border with China and Central Asia? Cutting it off from Pakistan will cut off our link to this All-weather-friend and Karakorum Highway (World’s Oldest historical trade route with immense strategical importance). Don’t forget the Jinnahpur conspiracy. To top everything off, we have a planted government of Zardari who is working for the interests of the masters taking decisions suicidal for Pakistan.

    It should be clear by now that disintegration of Pakistan via insurgencies is in full swing. At this important juncture, Pakistan Army and ISI are the ONLY institutions that can and are protecting Pakistan. So, we should not be emotional and shoot ourselves in the foot. I don’t know when our people are going to wake up to this reality.


    • the punjabi ttp trivial part is that its another group willing to go against the army and state. thats a jehadi group going for a muslim countries throat. the afpak game is known to them and yet they do it. whats going on? brainwashing?

      my last post kh


  26. We all should understand one thing clearly ,

    If TTP has allianced with America against Pakistan , dont we all know that the sentiment that created TTP is the alliance of Pakistan with USA in the war on Terror , does any of you who unconditionaly support PAK ARMY have any footings to support the american war on terror , could thousands of Afghans have been killed in Afghanistan if Pak Army didnt provide logistics and Intelligence , to NATO , these are all ground realities that have created the mistrust , anger and the virtue of revenge amongst millions of people who love Islam first , there have been sever mistakes committed by our goverment and forces from the day bombings in Kabul began till Jamia Hafsa or beyond till date ,

    Remember one thing all .. What Tehrik e taliban is doing in the name of Jihad is HARAM in shariah.. and what our forces are doing is HARAM as well..

    they negotiate with US INDIA ISRAEL and avoid confronting them directly whether they kill Muslim’s in IRAQ,AFG,KASHMIR,PALESTINE and elsewhere,and are always ready to take down their own people ,

    We patriots always follow the rhetoric that If TTP is anti america .. why dont they attack US bases…
    that means that they are being supported by US ,

    just ask a question if our army belives that US is supporting TTP , why dont our forces take US head on in afghanistan .. our atleast INDIA..

    the summary of my argument is that the real agenda of us is break the flow of jihad in afghanistan , and the last option they had was to initiate a fight between army and taliban . who have supported each other since creation, the only way to get out of afghanistan is to start a new conflict where Pakistan Army and Taliban continue to fight each other,

    Just Imagine a situation… there is a joint statement by Athar Abbas and Hakimullah Mehsud , that we have signed a peace accord on following terms ,

    US should pack their Bags and Leave this region or we will be left with no other option other than to dispose this criminal state actor who over the years killed millions of Muslims

    what do u think is a better situation the one we are witnessing in our cities or the one which is a dream ,

    May ALLAH return us to the Path of MUHAMMAD S.A.W and make us follow QURAN and SUNNAH …


  27. Funny thing is that Asher & others have not been able to realise that Jumbo is a Hindu Lingam sucker.He should have been booted out on his first comment.His guilt has come out when he says “I am a Pakistani”

    I think it is not difficult to ascertain from where the commnet is coming.

    PKKH should watch.


    • fikar na karo, ye naam badal kar zaroor vaapis ai ga. iss jaison ko yahan bakwas karnay kay paisay miltay hain.


  28. Very good article. As I can see above there is the usual SUBJECTIVE reaction by both extremes. You provide an excellent narrative that is simply objective, with your opinion that America has abandoned Pakistan at a crucial moment. I am US/French citizen and I think your conclusion is pretty obvious.
    There are powers above in both Pakistan, US, “Al Qaeda” and the “Taliban” that seem to have conflicting objectives. The whole thing since 2001 has smelled of conspiracy. Why did the US allow “Al Qaeda” core flee to this exact area in the first place? Why has the US allowed the ISI to have so much sway- knowing full well of its ties. Why does Pakistan allow ISI to support extremism and have it as its intelligence branch? There is too much money to be made in chaos. Money in arms. Money in Opium, money -by diverting money. The Terrorist Industrial Complex was used as a term lately. Very apt.


    • Daniel,

      There could also be other motives behind all this Chaos. How about someone’s principled stance? Why is the Muslim stance trivialized as ‘monolithic’, ‘terrorstic’, ‘Islamist’, ‘extremist’?

      When a group of people are exploited for years, sooner or later they rise up against it. It is only a natural process of cause and effect. But the occupation-forces counters that by raising the slogan of ‘extremism’.

      What is ‘extremism’? It is subjective. Praying 5 times a day, fasting in month of Ramadan, performing Hajj, Paying Zakat, chanting Allah’s different names and other prayers, keeping long beard, eating halal, covering our bodies out of modesty, staying away from fornicatio are all FUNDAMENTAL Islamic practises for Muslims. These are the bare minimum that Muslims have to follow. In our opinion, anyone who follows that in personal life and strive to establish that in public sphere is NOT an extremist. But to non-muslims and politically-motivated group it is extremism. Western people, being a secular majority, rarely go to Church but when they see us going to Mosque every Friday consider us staunch Muslims eventhough, a majority of us ONLY follow very little of Islam.

      So there is a clash of interests. US wants to maintain the world hegemony with oppressive institutions (banking system based on interest, IMF, World Bank, WHO,United Nation, UNDEMOCRATIC power of veto). Throughout the history, I have seen US being loggerhead with powers-to-be on false pretenses. First it was Russia, then China, Cuba and then Islam because these countries provide systems that are threatening to those few capatilistic families. Commuism attacks capitalism; Islam shows an alternate and sensible view to market economy having the wealth evenly distributed among everyone (through equally sharing profits and loss).

      I want the people in the West to stop thinking that Islam or Sharia is a threat to the World’s peace. The caricatures that they have made of Muslims make us believe that Muslims are going to forcefully convert EVERYONE to Islam and put unnecessary restrictions. In Pakistan alcohol consumption is banned for Muslims but non-muslims can obtain a liquor license. Similar such accomodations are made throught the Muslims world and yes even in Saudi Arabia. In the Islamic empires of the past, non-Muslims had full freedom to practise their religion. If it was not such there wouldn’t have been such huge population of non-Muslims. Look at India. Muslims ruled them for about 1000 years. We still have Hindus.


      • The problem is not in practicing Muslim retuals as you mentioned.. bu the problem is treating other religion as inferior … Pakistan has follwed the part of Saudi and they welcomes its Wahibi sect of muslims … If govt monitors the madarssas and its learnings things could have manageable .. the point is whole of last two decades .. starting Soviet-Afgan war. Pakistan noutured this Terrorist as assets sooner or later to be used agianst India … and today .. It is about to fall in its own grave ..


  29. Also, on a Religious note for those that espouse “law”: It says very clearly, in both Christianity and Islam- Killing anyone, unless absolutely necessary, is wrong- period. Look up what Mohamed says with respect to this. One of the first verses of prayer (in the daily Muslim Prayers) is “respect all religions”.
    So, if any of the so called “Religious” commenters follow their Religion, they will find, that Pride- be it of Tribe, Pashtun Nation, Urdu, Punjabi, US, Pak, whatever- is sinful. Killing for pride is sinful. Showing off about necessary killing is sinful. No one should shout “Allah” after killing someone out of necessity, but rather be solemn. Read the Koran. The US has occupied Muslim lands, it is understandable to defend. But it is sinful to be “proud” and to cheer, and to show your religion as a badge of honor, instead of being humble in your religion. It is a sign of lack of Faith. Fear. Not Trust in God or Allah. True Religion is silent. Humble. Lacks Pride, Lacks any attributes of the “World” – it is the opposite heirarchy.


  30. Believing that Daniel is an Indian,we must sympathise with Daniel.Christians are also suffering at the hands of Hidus as Muslim are.Their chuches have been burnt.Australian preacher with his sons were burnt alive.

    The ex defence Minister(George Fernandes) had to face anti-christianity fever on the issue of the Army scandal,in the so-called secular state.


    • You are really a nut .. living in denail mode…I don’t understand .. why you cannot tolerate slightest of critic & do the introspection .. rather than jumping into conclusion ..


  31. Shabbir,

    I disagree with your assessement. Government DOES NOT need to monitor Maderrassas. These are religious institutions and their sanctitiy and importanct is understood by all Muslims unless they are of liberal band (but they are minority and don’t represent Pakistani majority anyways). It is ridiculous to suggest that we should NOT have religious freedom in our OWN country.

    In your India (yes you are an Indian: it is usually the non-Muslims who are concerned about Madersahs), you have these religious fanatics roaming around killing innocent minorities: Muslim, Christian, Sikhs etc and you are worried about peace-loving Madersah’s. We will never comprominse on Islamic Education whether you like it or not. It is this Islamic education that encourages us to stand up against OPPRESSION. The oppression that we see around us: Palestinian, Kashmiris, Indian Christians, Indian Sikhs, the Dalits, The Shudars, the poor, the unresourcefulls.

    You need to put a stop on what you teach in your institutions that churns out such Hindu Fundamentalists like Vishwa Hindu Prishad, BJP, RSS and the like who commit inhumane execcess like Gujrat Muslim Massacre. The world need to stop the violence committed by the Zionists, the freemasons, the Ku-Klux-Klan, CIA, Drug Mafia, underworld etc.

    Why single out Muslims who are fighting for a just cause: asserting their God given rights to rule with their religious principles in their OWN country? Isn’t this the essence of democracy?


  32. Asher,
    You are 100% correct.Shabbir is an Indian.
    If Muslim,can he tell us the page number of soora-e-wilayat,in his copy of quran.(I have intentionally used small letters).


  33. […] Originally Posted by Infanteer have you served ? i do realize he is a troll that the bitter truth .read it out. US Betrayal As Pakistan Army Launches Waziristan Offensive Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz […]



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