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Pakistan Air Force | A Proud History

Pakistan China Aircraft

Every Man A Tiger

Pakistan has one of the best, most combat ready airforces in the world. They have to; their neighbour to the east is huge, and the two nations, have a long history of hostilities. For Indian war planners, the Pakistan air Force is their worst fear. Pakistani pilots are respected throughout the world, especially the Islamic world, beause they know how to fly and fight.

On one or two occasions, I had the oppertunity to talk with Pakistani instructor pilots, who had served in Iraq. These discussions, didn’t give me great cause to worry. The Russian domination of training prevented the Pakistanis from having any real influence on the Iraqi aircrew training program.

Still, there had to be a few Iraqi pilots, who had observed and listened to their mentors from France and Pakistan and the useless guidence of their inept leaders. It was those few, I was concerned about – the ones with great situational awareness and good eyesight, who had figured out how to effectively use their aircrafts and its weapons to defend their nation.”

(General Chuck Horner (retd) and Tom Clancey. General Chuck commanded the US and allied air assets during Desert shield and desert storm, and was responsible for the design and execution of one of the most devestating air campaigns in the history. He also served as Commander 9th Air Force, Commander US Central Command Air Forces, and Commander in chief, SpaceCom. Book: Every Man A Tiger).

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PAF – Quality If Not Quantity

jf-17thunder013“Another way in which the PAF satisfies this requirement is in the pursuit of excellence with regard to its combat echelons. Paradoxically, though, that pursuit is by its very nature an expensive procedure and there is a high wastage rate as pilots progress through the training system, with individuals being weeded out all the way along the line. The end result is felt to be well worth the expense involved, however, and personal observations have certainly convinced the author that the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those , who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best in a host of western air arms. Standard of accuracy appear comparable to those of the west and may surpass them, one F-6 pilot of No. 15 Squadron having recently put 20 out of 25 shells through a banner in four successive passes. The author can vouch for this having inspected the banner at Kamra and even more remarkably, the pilot responsible for this impressive shooting was a ‘first tourist’.”

(Lindsay Peacock. Journal: Air International, Vol 41. No 5)

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YEAGER

“When we arrived in Pakistan in 1971, the political situation between the Pakistanis and Indians was really tense over Bangladesh, or East Pakistan, as it was known in those days, and Russia was backing India with tremendous amounts of new airplanes and tanks. The U.S. and China were backing the Pakistanis. My job was military advisor to the Pakistani air force, headed by Air Marshal Rahim Khan, who had been trained in Britain by the Royal Air Force, and was the first Pakistani pilot to exceed the speed of sound. He took me around to their different fighter groups and I met their pilots, who knew me and were really pleased that I was there. They had about five hundred airplanes, more than half of them Sabres and 104 Starfighters, a few B-57 bombers, and about a hundred Chinese MiG-19s. They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.

The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I’m certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.

pakistan_air_force_8_mediumI didn’t get involved in the actual combat because that would’ve been too touchy, but I did fly around and pick up shot-down Indian pilots and take them back to prisoner-of-war camps for questioning. I interviewed them about the equipment they had been flying and the tactics their Soviet advisers taught them to use. I wore a uniform or flying suit all the time, and it was amusing when those Indians saw my name tag and asked, “Are you the Yeager who broke the sound barrier?” They couldn’t believe I was in Pakistan or understand what I was doing there. I told them, “I’m the American Defense Rep here. That’s what I’m doing.” The PAF remains the only foreign air force in the world to have received Chuck Yeager’s admiration – a recommendation which the PAF is proud of. (Source: PIADS)

(General (Retd.) Chuck Yeager (USAF) , Book: Yeager, the Autobiography).

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THE 1965 INDO- PAKISTAN WAR

“The Partition of 1947 signalled the end of the British Empire in India, and the establishment of two independent states, India and Pakistan. They took opposite sides over Kashmir’s struggle for independence in 1947-49, and although open war was averted, India lost 6000 men in the conflict. India annexed Kashmir in January 1957 and there followed a long period of tension with Pakistan. Armed clashes in the Rann of Kutch in western India during January 1965 and Pakistan’s recruitment of a ‘Free Kashmir’ guerrilla army finally erupted into open warfare in August 1965.

The ground forces of the two countries appeared to be evenly matched, and their respective offensives (although involving approximately 6000 casualties on each side) were indecisive. The Pakistan Air Force, however, emerged with great credit from its conflict with the Indian Air Force, destroying 22 IAF aircraft in air-to-air combat for the loss of only eight of its own – a remarkable achievement considering that the PAF faced odds of nearly four to one. During the conflict India and Pakistan came under strong international pressure to end the war, and arms supplies to both sides were cut off by Britain and the US. A ceasefire imposed by the UN Security Council then reduced the conflict to a series of sporadic minor clashes, and the national leaders were persuaded to attend a peace conference at Tashkent in January 1966. Their decision to renounce the use of force finally ended the war.”

(Anthoney Robinson, former staff of the RAF Museum, Hendon and now a free lance Military aviation writer . Book: Elite Forces Of The World)

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Combat Over The Indian Subcontinent

“In September 1965 a festering border dispute between India and Pakistan erupted into full scale war. The Indian possessed the larger air force numerically, composed maily of British and French types- Hawker Hunter, Folland Gnat and Dassault Mystere fighters, Dassault Ouragon fighter-bombers and English electric Camnberra bombers. The smaller but highly trained Pakistan air force was equipped in large part with F-86F Sabers, plus a few F-104 Starfighters. Fighting lasted little more than two weeks, but during that time, Pakistan gained a definite ascendancy in the air. It was the well proven Sabers that emerged with honors, being credited with all but five of the 36 victories claimed. The Indians claimed 73 victories – undoubtly a considerable overestimate – for an admitted loss of 35.”

(Christopher Sivores, Book: Air Aces)

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Fiza’ya: Psyche Of The Pakistan Air Force.

This is the first definitive account of a relatively small but fascinating air arm, the Pakistan Air Force. Hitherto either casually studied or written up in propaganda fashion, the PAF has needed a detailed analysis of how a developing country with limited resources can nonetheless produce a first class air force.

The Pakistan Fiza’ya (Pakistan Air Force) plays a role in the psyche of its nation unmatched by any air force in the world except that by the Israeli Air Force. The PAF’s motto, loosely translated from the Persian, is ‘Lord of All I Survey’. It calls itself “The Pride of the Nation’, and it is exactly that. Much smaller than India in geographical size and population, Pakistan sees itself as a beleaguered state between India to the East and the Soviet Union/Afghanistan to the West. Since it can never match numbers with India, much in the same way as Israel cannot match numbers with the Arabs, it has always emphasized quality, and projected itself as the Gallant Few against the eastern hordes of many. The mystique of the air warrior, the last jousting knight, the only surviving gladiator on the field of modem war, has been effectively utilized by Pakistan as its symbol of defiance against vastly larger enemies.

pakistanf-16The PAF gets the best and the brightest of the country’s young men, and it is given clear preference in the matter of equipment. In 1981, for example, Pakistan paid $1.2 billion for 40 F-16s. By comparison, the entire first five year (1982-87) FMS package from the United States totalled $1.6 billion, of which $0.5 billion was used to cover the shortfalls in the F-16 funding. In other words, virtually half of all military equipment purchased from the US during this period went on one single purchase of fighter aircraft for the PAF.

Had the US been willing to supply an Airborne Warning and Control System to Pakistan in the second package (1987-92), along with additional F-16s again the PAF would have gotten half or more of the total sum. Because the nation spends so much of its precious resources on the PAF, it expects a great dealinreturn. In 1965 the PAF delivered; in 1971,overtaken by circumstances outside of its control, it did not. This took much of the glint, glamour and shine off the PAF. But in the next eighteen years, 1972-90, by dint of solid hard work the PAF did much to restore its prestige.”

(Pushpinder Singh, Ravi Rikhye, Peter Steinemann. Book: Fiza’ya: Psyche of the Pakistan Air Force.)

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On Eagles’ Wings

“He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian”

(Israel Air Force chief Ezer Weizmen writing about PAF chief Nur Khan in his autobiography, On Eagles’ Wings).

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Pakistan Air Force.

“One of Asia’s most competent air arms…”

(World Air Power Journal, Vol 6 Summer 1991)

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Pakistan’s Professionals.

“Overall the PAF are a highly professional air force and this is reflected in their high standards of instructions and flying training.”

(Steve Bond commenting about PAF’s flying training program. Journal: Air Forces Monthly, May 1990.)

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Airforces Monthly

An article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47) of Airforces Monthly, a reputable UK-based air defence magazine, written by a Russian aviation writer, Sergey Vekhov, for the first time in public, provided a first-hand account about the PAF’s pilots:

“As an air defence analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders’ School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world”. As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1992, “it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind”.

Article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47 by Sergey Vekhov)

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Jane’s International Defense (June 24, 1998)

The PAF, although outnumbered by IAF, has at least one qualitative edge over its rival: Pilot Training. The caliber of Pakistani instructors is acknowledged by numerous air forces, and US Navy pilots considered them to be highly ‘professionals’ during exercises flying off the USS Constellation (as co-pilots). The IAF is in an unfortunate position: it lacks an advanced training (and multi-role combat aircraft)

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During 1965 war, India’s General Chaudri ordered his troops to march on Sialkot and Lahore – jauntily inviting his officers to join him for drinks that evening in lahore Gymkhana. He didn;t reckon on the Pakistani troops.

“The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with Pakistanis didn’t get clobbered,” said a report in Washington DC, America. “They just turned and ran, leving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind”.

I have been a journalist now for twenty years, ‘reported American Broadcasting Corporation’s Roy Maloni, “and want to go on record that I have never seen a more confident and victoroius group of soldiers than those fighting for Pakistan, right now.

India is claiming all-out victory. I have not been able to find any trace of it. All I can see are troops, tanks and other war material rolling in a steady towards the front … These muslims of Pakistan are natural fighters and they ask for no quarter and they give none. In any war, such as the one going on between India and Pakistan right now, the propoganda claims on either side are likely to be startling. But if I have to take bet today, my money would be on the Pakistan side.

The London Daily Mirror reported: “There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India’s attacking forces came to a dead stop.

“During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistani troops.”

“India”, said the London Daily Times, “is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by four and a half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces.”

In Times reporter Louis Karrar wrote: “Who can defeat a nation which knows how to play hide and seek with death“.

“… I will never forget the smile full of nerve the conducting army officers gave me. this smile told me how fearless and brave are the Pakistani young men.

“Playing with fire to these men — from the jawan to the general Officer Commanding — was like children playing with marbles in the streets.

“I asked the GOC, how is it that despite a small number you are overpowering the Indians?

He looked at me, smiled and said: “if courage, bravery and patriotism were purchaseable commodities, then India have got them along with American aid.”

“Pakistan has been able to gain complete command of the air by literally knocking the Indian planes out of the skies, if they had not already run away.”

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Indian pilots are inferior to Pakistan’s pilots and Indian officers’ leadership has been generally deplorable. India is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by a four and a half to one in population and three to one three to one in size of armed forces.”

Sunday Times, London, September 19, 1965.

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“Pakistan’s success in the air means that she has been able to redeploy her relatively small army — professionally among the best in Asia — with impunity, plugging gaps in the long front in the face of each Indian thrust.”

“By all accounts the courage displayed by the Pakistan Air Force pilots is reminiscent of the bravery of the few young and dedicated pilots who saved this country from Nazi invaders in the critical Battle of Britain during the last war.”

Patrick Seale, The Observer, London, September 12, 1965.

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India is claiming all out victory. I have not been able to find any trace of it. All I can see are troops, tanks and other war material rolling in a steady stream towards the front.”

“If the Indian Air Force is so victorious, why has it not tried to halt this flow?. The answer is that it has been knocked from the skies by Pakistani planes.

“Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like 1/3rd the Indian Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say that Pakistani pilots have claimed even higher kills than this; but the Pakistani Air Force are being scrupulously honest in evaluating these claims. They are crediting Pakistan Air Force only those killings that can be checked from other sources.”

Roy Meloni, American Broadcasting Corporation, September 15, 1965.

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p8088051One thing I am convinced of is that Pakistan morally and even physically won the air battle against immense odds.

“Although the Air Force gladly gives most credit to the Army, this is perhaps over-generous. India with roughly five times greater air-power, expected an easy air-superiority. Her total failure to attain it may be seen retrospectively as a vital, possibly the most vital, of the whole conflict.”

“Nur Khan is an alert, incisive man of 41, who seems even less. For six years he was on secondment and responsible for running Pakistan’s civil air-line, which, in a country where ‘now’ means sometime and ‘sometime’ means never, is a model of efficiency. he talks without the jargon of a press relations officer. He does not quibble abobut figures. Immediately one has confidence in what he says.”

“His estimates, proffered diffidently but with as much photographic evidence as possible, speak for themselves. Indian and Pakistani losses, he thinks, are in something like the ration of ten to one.”

“Yet, the quality of equipment, Nur insists, is less important than flying ability and determination. The Indians have no sense of purpose. The Pakistanis were defending their own country and willingly taking greater risks. ‘The average bomber crews flew 15 to 20 sorties. My difficulty was restraining them, not pushing them on.‘ “

This is more than nationalistic pride. Talk to the pilots themselves and you get the same intense story.”

Peter Preston, The Guardian, London – September 24, 1965.

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“One point particularly noted by military observers is that in their frist advances the Indians did not use air power effectively to support their troops. In contrast, the Pakistanis, with sophisticated timing, swooped in on Ambala airfield and destroyed some 25 Indian planes just after they had landed and were sitting on the ground out of fuel and powerless to escape (NOTE: PAF has not claimed any IAF aircraft during it’s attacks on Ambala due to non-availability of concrete evidence of damage in night bombing.)”

“By the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own.

Everett G. Martin, General Editor, Newsweek, September 20, 1965.

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“India’s barbarity is mounting in fury as the Indian army and Air Force, severely mauled, are showing signs of demoralisation. The huge losses suffered by the Indian Armed Forces during the last 12 days of fighting could not be kept from the Indian public and in retaliation, the Indian armed forces are indulging in the most barbaric methods.”

The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space. A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, also admitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses.

Indonesian Herald, September 11, 1965.

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Pakistani forces thrusting six miles deep into Indian territory the south-east of Lahore have checked the Indian offensive launched on September 6 against the capital of West Pakistan.

Pakistani infantry supported by armor and guns were today entrenched six miles east of the Indian border, and well beyond Indian town of Khem Karan, the capture of which last week forced Indian tanks and men to make a hasty retreat.

From Khem Karan, an ever-green village now deserted by its 15,000 people, a 40-mile road leads directly to Amritsar, holy capital of India’s restive Sikhs. And a Pakistani offensive along that road could threaten the rear of Indian forces still facing Lahore from East Punjab.

As I visited Khem Karan today with the first party of newsmen shown into India by Pakistani officers, evidence of the Indians’ hasty withdrawal lay everywhere in the flat dust blown fields.

Intact mortars and American made ammunition, much of which was still crated, for 81 and 120 mm mortars, shells for 90 mm tank guns, rifle cartridges in hundred, stacks of fuel in barrel, had been left behind.

India had sent against Lahore one armoured brigade and two infantry divisions. The initial thrust on September 6, carried the Indians two and a half miles deep into Pakistan from Khem Karan and the Pakistanis say they were outnumbered six to one.

The Pakistanis pushed the Indians back at the cost of bitter fighting. One Pakistani armoured unit ran into an Indian armoured regiment, the Ninth Royal Deccan Horse… and no shots were spared.

I saw two Indian Sherman tanks on the road to Khem Karan blown clean through, one in the rear and one in the front, each by a single Pakistani shell with the dead crew still inside.

Indian dead lay unburied in the fields. An Indian border post was riddled with bullets and shells. This is real war, even though Pakistani infantry are now resting at forward posts, with Indians on the defensive and the main action in the air.

Indian British made Canberras, Soviet made Mig-21s and French made Mysteres and Ouragons constantly swoop, strafe and bomb from a safe altitude, for Pakistani anti-aircraft units are very much on the alert. On the the road from Lahore charred trucks lay twisted wrecks, one of them still aflame. It is war run by cool professionals, with every gun and tank well protected by camouflage nets, every trench where it should be, perfect discipline and very high morale.

Almost every Pakistani officers says: “We are not interested in territorial gains, but we are very keen to give the Indians a hard lesson and we won’t stop short of that.”

AFP Corespondent, reporting on September 9, 1965

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Man for man, unit for unit, Pakistan’s smaller Army is at a higher standard of training than the Indian Army. The present Indian intention was to scatter Pakistan’s smaller Army by making several other thrusts apart from the main fighting area in the Lahore sector. The intense air activity had prevented the mass movement of Indian troops by air.

BBC commentary By Charles Douglas Home, September 10, 1965

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The Pakistan-India conflict, in the Pentagon’s early assessment, pits tighter discipline, a higher morale, better training, and some superior equipment among the Pakistanis against considerably larger Indian Land, Air and Sea Forces.

Washington sources see Pakistan aiming to humiliate Indian in a short conflict. They judge India as depending on its juggernaut to crush the Pakistanis under sheer military weight.

Armoured strength between the two forces is about equal but the Pakistani tanks are more modern.

Christian Science Monitor, September 10, 1965

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Pakistan has a somewhat more homogeneous army with less ethnic and religious frictions. Its soldiers have a high reputation for will to fight; and in Mohammad Ayub Khan, the head of state and Sandhurst-trained professional soldier, the army has always had a sympathetic supporter.

The ‘New York Times’, September 10, 1965

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“We fought for you last time,” several Pakistanis told me, referring to their wartime service under British command. “But this time it is our war and we shall fight it to the finish”

Joe McGrown Jr., Washington Post, September 10, 1965

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Nehru wasn’t worried much about aggression when India took Goa. But Shastri has plenty to worry about now, because he is facing penal and disciplinary action by one of the toughest and best trained armies in the world, excellently led, highly organized and totally dedicated. For himself he has a motley, disorganized, low-morale force of four time as many men as Pakistan, but they can’t or won’t fight. They only beg.

The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with the Pakistanis didn’t get clobbered. They just turned and ran, leaving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind.

The Pakistan military hardware, including tanks, planes, and ground-warfare equipment of every kind is far superior to that of Indians, and one long time expert of the Indian-Pakistan picture told me this afternoon that in his military opinion, there is little doubt but that the Pakistanis will lick the Indians in the long run, despite the fact that the Indian army outnumbers the Pakistan army four to one.

This expert said, however, that there is great disparity between the quality of the two armies, not to mention the disparity in equipment. The Indian soldier is soft while the Pakistan soldier is tough and determined. The Indian leadership is vacillating and uncertain, while the Pakistan leadership is well trained, highly talented and decisive.

aabThe Indian air force is somewhat larger than the Pakistan Air Force in numbers of planes, but there is no organizational pattern to the way they have been acquired or to what is on hand. It is a weird conglomeration of all sorts and conditions of aircraft from a variety of countries, even including France and the maintenance problem is staggering, even if adequate maintenance personnel were available. It means a vast stocking of replacement parts, because the different for virtually ever type of plane they have, while the Pakistan Air Force has been intelligent enough to standardize to a very high degree, and thus reduce their maintenance problem to a minimum. And this is vitally important as any war proceeds beyond the very first stages.

Furthermore, it began to develop today that the Indian claims of having shot down large numbers of Pakistan Air Force planes in the first days of conflict were highly exaggerated, and that the Pakistan losses have been virtually nil in this line.

The Indian claims, frankly, were highly suspicious from the beginning because they are notably poor airmen and their equipment is antiquated and not at all a match for the modern jet equipment of the Pakistan Air Force. It just didn’t hold water to anyone who knew the details of the Indian air inventory as against the Pakistan air inventory, that any such victories could have been achieved by the Indians.

Top of the News’, Washington, September 6-10, 1965

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“For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

USA – Aviation Week & Space Technology – December 1968 issue.

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“Pakistan’s air force gained a remarkable victory over India in this brief 22 day war exploiting its opponents weaknesses in exemplary style – Deeply shaken by reverse, India began an extensive modernisation and training program, meanwhile covering its defeat with effective propaganda smoke screen.”

Encyclopaedia of Aircraft printed in several countries by Orbis Publications – Volume 5

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Alam’s Speed Shooting Classics – One of the great aces of the jet age.

Columnist Air Cdre M Kaiser Tufail has conducted a detailed research of MM Alam’s 1965 feats. Read it here

199 comments

  1. [...] If this doesn’t fill you with pride, nothing will. [...]


    • WE ARE WITH THE PAKISTAN WE ARE PROUD 2 B PAKIS AND WE ARE WARNIN YOU WE GOT D HEART TO FIGHT SO YA`LL BACK D FUCK UP WE DON CARE HOW BIG URE ARMY IS OR HOW MANY JETS U GOT, U COME FACE 2 FACE AND OUR LET ALONE OUR ARMY, US CIVILLIANS WUD SCREW U OVA!


      • Yea, With their 5th largest army in the world they still don’t enough courage to fight. Indian can brag all they want but they don’t have two balls between their legs to fight.


    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_Wars

      Plz go through this link and check some reality.

      I am neither an Indian nor a Pakistani . . .
      I suggest your country cant afford a war. .a economist with some common sense can guess.

      You people are living in a country that is on brink of economic collapse. You need foreign aid to feed ur ppl. And you are talking of war with a top 10 GDP country. Wake up !! Tell ur GOVT first to feed its ppl properly then it can hope to survive. A war is not required for u ppl. Think Deeply. . .


      • hey man!!! u r saying this becz u r nt a pakistani or i guess a muslim too..
        advise dis to the American, the biggest terrorist on this earth, They r spending billions of dollar in killing innocent people in IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, CHACHNIYA etc beside millions of people die due to da shortage of IN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA


      • so is america at the brink of economic collapse. check out your increasing job losses and homeless people. you guys don’t have health insurance. and no doubt, since dropping the atom bomb on innocent japanese you have the unique distinction of biggest terrorist state, besides israel.


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      This link includes the pictures of JF-17 Thunder

      JF-17 Thunder Block 2
      F-16 Fighting Falcon
      FC-20
      Mirage Rose
      A-5 Bomber

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      Proud To Be a Pakistani
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  2. “The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with the Pakistanis didn’t get clobbered. They just turned and ran, leaving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind.” LMAO!!! — Poor Indians. its a shame they’re such pussies.


  3. [...]  http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpress.com/pakistan-air-force-a-proud-history/ [...]


  4. That is all what happened in the past,, but how strong are we today ???

    i see the removal of musharaf, the riots in karachi, the killing benazir, the propoganda of jew all of the shit and shaking news we here all the time… i can see it all as nothing but the method of unsettling the foundations of our strenghts and morals,,, when they couldnt defeat us in the battlefield face to face, they switched to other “freemasonic” ways to destroy pak..

    pak zindabad!!


  5. My father Colonel Naserullah Khan, who had retired in 1962 and was working for the Inter-Continental Hotels in Karachi, at the start of the war took the first available C-130 and arrived at the GHQ in Rawalpindi in the hope of finding action, the next day he managed his way into Khem Karan and to his luck got command of “The Charging 24th” on September 9th and fought his way through till the cease fire.


    • Asalaam alikum wr wb;

      MASHALLAH .. we are proud of mujahid pak army officers and soldiers like your father colonel Naserullah khan. INSHALLAH Pakista will continue to be blessed by such great warriors to fight for pakistan and destroy known and other shadowy forces like freemasons.


    • Where was your fathers in 1971??


  6. Don’t worry Yousuf, no matter how corrupt and selfish our politicians are, our Army stands united, undivided and they can do wonders even if they are outnumbered. Don’t forget the history of Islam which is full of such heroes where a very small Muslim army came over times fold enemies to their size with Allah’s help.

    Just have faith, stand unite and all will be well ~ insha Allah. Try to educate other fellows on the problems you mentioned, it should start from home.


  7. Thats a beautiful story Mahmoud! Bet you’re dead proud of him!


  8. Pakistan has got outdated F-16s (from 1981) compared to the Russian made Sukhoi fighter jets (currently one of the most technically advanced fighters) that India has. Call me a pessimist, but I think we are going to get our asses handed to us if war breaks out. Also, India has 5 fighter jets for every 1 (outdated)fighther jet that Pakistan has. I don’t think we have any other option than to pull out the “big gun.” But, that will be a HUGE mistake.


  9. [...] Man A Tiger Pakistan Air Force | A Proud History Pakistan has one of the best, most combat ready airforces in the world. They have to; their [...]


  10. What ever we are we are proud of our selfves.

    I am proud to be aMuslim but More Proud to Be Pakistani In Islamic World.

    We are Inshallaha Standing with PAK Army side by side.

    SONS of the Soil are ready to fight for their Mother LAnd. INDA: Don’t Dare to Invite us for War. Every Pakistani is Egar to fight for his PAkistan’s Integrity and Soveronity.
    LONG LIVE PAkistan. I think Their should be an oppertunity to slaughter India and Teach them a Lesson.


  11. [Pakistan has got outdated F-16s (from 1981) compared to the Russian made Sukhoi fighter jets (currently one of the most technically advanced fighters) that India has. Call me a pessimist, but I think we are going to get our asses handed to us if war breaks out....]

    MA, It’s the men behind the machines that count!

    Every war brings losses and its only the will to win that takes you to victory, no matter how greatly you are outnumbered.

    I just love the very first comment:
    [...] If this doesn’t fill you with pride, nothing will. [...]


  12. I am proud of PAKISTAN AIR FORCE. PAF keep it up and the whole nation is proud of you…

    PAKISTAN ZINDABAD…


  13. Nasir, the Hamas fighters in Gaza have the will also; but look what’s happening. Although its extremely important to have the will to win, but it can’t be achieved with under performing equipment.
    I’m practical and there should be no reason why my practical opinions should be misconstrued. MA


  14. lol, all 1970-1981 retard planes from america, china…
    rofl, if ever pak government consider to feed the poor??
    economy shrinking like hell, poverty rising like hell, dancing on commands of china, to support taliben against america, and LeT against india..

    ever understand chinese simplified language? use google translator to some china state runned news sites, what they think of you. rofl man.

    ever saw ur country’s internal situation?
    you sunni muslim always dominant, kills, all shias/christan/hindu/jews.

    still kicked out by U.S.A. in iraq and afganistan,
    by israel in hamas led phelestien
    and by india in kashmir and east-pakistan.
    morons,

    i dont give a sh!t to india coz they also backs sunni muslims…

    its america, who really think of us..

    go get a life man,
    ur 70% planes lacks instruments either they r outdated or giving problems,
    pak asking U.S.A. to supply them those parts..

    ur navels lacks everything, if ur government really want to protect PAK, then inspire its scientist to research on it… and ur defence tactics sucks,
    india shaked hands with afganistan, which never recognised pakistani border, they think pak as their part.. you should knew this, coz pak encouraged taliban to envoy afgan..

    (all shia united)


  15. @Shia

    Look at your India then speak of Pakistan first, whole world know about Massacre of Muslims in Gujarat, Massacre of Christians in Orissa, social depirvation of Shoodra (low cast Hindus), bombing of Samjhauta Express by in-service army officers, and if you still don’t feel brain in your skull, buy a cow and slaughter it on Eid-ul_Azha phir dekho tumhare pyari hindu bhia tumhare andar kitne ched karte hain aur teri bheno ke saath kya sulook karte hain.

    After this, come here again and write your comments about your r-India


  16. ohh, still more then 180000000 muslim lives in india, 2nd most populated islamic country in the world is india after indonesia*…

    i know why they killed 2000 muslim in gujrat,
    bcoz those bastard sunni fired the train which were carrying hindu devotees..

    then it was also sunni bcoz of hindu-christan riots happend..

    fcuk off man, go get some.

    it was pakistan who killed more then 20,000 shia muslim in last decade.
    it was sunni who killed 80 million hindu.
    it was sunni who troubled jews.
    it was sunni who are killing christan.
    how much? you cant even count..

    now see the mirror.
    you got voilence in ur blood.
    you sunni got terrorism in ur blood.

    (all shia united)


    • u are a disgrace to muslims


      • I am Shia and totally disagree with this guy. To discuss our divisions is to further disunite our Ummah. Get over it!
        We are Muslims period. United we stand. Divided we fall!


  17. [...] Pakistan Air Force | A Proud History [...]


  18. Hate to break it to you guys but the situation these days is a lot different. India does have a qualitative superiority with their Su30, Mig29, and Mirage2000s. The 30 odd Pakistani F-16′s are two decades old technology. Pilot quality cannot overcome the overwhelming odds. Unfortunately that is the only area where we might be doing good & that too is because we have too few aircraft and a lot of talented candidates so we better be good at what we have. In an all out war Pakistani airforce will not survive more than a day against any of the western (NATO) airforces. Think what happened to Irag during the first gulf war. We might do 500% better than that but that would mean we’d last 24 hours instead of 5.

    We are our own worse enemy & we are being eaten from within. All we have going for us is our pride which is our greatest dillusion.


  19. Nice, continue to live in your deluded state of grandeur with memories of the 1965 war.

    Here is a reality check for you guys. India currently operates about 150 of the most technically advanced fighter aircrafts in the world, the Sukhoi 30 MKI’s,this is in additon to the other 100′s of Mirage 2000′s and MIG 29′s. Also in 2008 it has issued a tender for 10 billion dollars (more than the whole of the pakistani defence budget),the largest defence deal in the world, to buy around 130 of the most advanced fighter aircraft like the F22 Raptor. So while you guys struggle to buy spare parts for you 25 year old F-16, India is well on its way to build a world class airforce.


    • all this would come to place when you will cross the pakistani air space from your indian side …jk17 thunder is here to welcome you guys …..you will be suprised to see how well we pakis welcome your pilots…..so come on and see yourself weather your money was well spent in Moscow


  20. Damn this SU-30MKI story is getting old haha. This ‘most technically advanced’ toy got swooped in a number of AF exercises with US F15s and F16s. Go and read the complete story Einstein. I don’t expect you to understand though, as the average Indian is quite content with numbers alone, as you so beautifully demonstrate.

    Furthermore, I feel that in most of the comments here PAF is either being overestimated or underestimated. If war should ever again break out between Pakistan and India, don’t expect massive aerial campaigns by either side, instead, take a note: this time the respective air forces will not play the same type of role as they used to. For starters, I wouldn’t know why Pakistan would not strike at all Indian airfields with ballistic/cruise missiles thus effectively grounding the entire IAF (although in theory). India might want to do the same, but 1) they’re still high on their ‘surgical strike’ wet dream, which may make them overlook this tactic, and 2) the quality and reliability of India’s ballistic missile deterrent is a public embarassment, even Indian researchers no longer hide the truth. Pakistans missiles on the other hand are as reliable as can be. I will once again repeat that this is a theoretical assumption, but understand that the possibility such tactics is not to be taken lightly as these aren’t the 60′s or the 70′s.

    Lastly, with regards to the ‘PAF pessimists’ :P : PAF is currently undergoing thorough modernization. Old planes are slowly being phased out, old F16′s are being MLU’d to be brought on par with the latest types of F16s, new state-of-the-art F16′s will start rolling in soon insha’Allah, the new JF-17 is currently being assembled in Pakistan and in the long run will be produced completely in Pakistan. While the first batch of 50 planes (16 or 17 have already been received) will include Chinese avionics, the next batch will include highly advanced Western avionics. We’ve come this far while our enormous neighbour to the east has spent decades of work and waisted gigantic amounts of cash on their LCA and still don’t know what to do with it. Also add more to this the expected induction of the brand new FC-20s which opens yet another door of numerous possibilities plus induction of different state-of-the-art AWACS platforms. In collaboration with our best friends to the northeast, Pakistan has also started work on the next generation of aircraft to ultimately raise the level of sophistication in our fighter aircraft beyond the point what we have held imaginable thus far for our precious air force. Also do expect to see PAF operating armed UAV’s in near future.

    Anyone seeking a direct fight with the PAF will only come in to leave with a bloody nose. India has had a distant chance in recent months to maybe do some harm to PAF, but in the course of this year alone they can slowly start to forget whatever they had thought of to throw at us. PAF is developing fast, and there’s a lot more ready for action under the surface than we know about for sure. Such is the way of our forces to maintain a professional attitude, in stark contrast to Indian forces.


    • @ A A Khan,
      that is the main diffrences between IAF and PAF….they have to show to their public so that their morale is kept high …we Pakis dont need to know ..as e know PAF is the spear direct to the enemy heart ..no matter who ..once you cross that sky border you are fried fish masala


  21. I forgot to mention: the picture we’re served on the IAF is a little bit too good to be true and the IAF knows it. ACM Tyagi warned back in 2006 that the Indian govt need to move their asses before PAF’s force levels become too high for them. Read the following item and remember: this is not about the far away past, it gives a good impression of the way things stand right now. In the years ahead, PAF may well find itself in a equal or better position in the power balance against IAF than it used to back in 1965.

    __________________________

    Special: IAF may lose out to Pak

    Anubha Bhonsle / CNN-IBN

    TimePublished on Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 21:06, Updated on Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 17:34 in Nation section

    New Delhi: A crisis has been brewing in the Indian Air Force and it’s about to blow up in the face of the government. The Indian Air Force (IAF) top brass has informed the Union Government that if corrective measures are not taken immediately, India will lose its air superiority over Pakistan.

    “Unless immediate steps are taken to arrest the reduction in Indian Air Force’s force levels, the nation will for the first time in its history, lose the conventional military edge over Pakistan.”

    This is a what the three-page letter of warning, written by Air Chief Marshal Tyagi to Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee, says.

    A copy of the letter, which has raised serious concerns over the declining combat force level of the IAF, is available with CNN-IBN.

    In his letter, the Air Chief Marshal writes, “Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is being beefed up with 44 F16s from America. They have a clearly defined goal of attaining parity with the IAF. With China supplying J 10 and JF 17 aircraft (fitted with Russian engines), PAF force levels of combat squadron will increase.”

    “Unless steps are taken to move ahead with procurement, the IAF’s combat strength will deplete to a level, which would entirely neutralise the conventional superiority held by IAF since our Independence. PAF will have 19 to 26 squadrons by 2011-12, while the IAF could reduce to 26.5 by 2015.”

    Many say the situation is very serious and demands immediate attention.

    __________________________

    Source: see link attached to this post.


  22. Can you send me some posters of Pakistan Army and Pak Airforce. I love our jawans. I am willing to pay whatever the cost would be. I live in Canada and can send the money in any form you like inshauallah

    Aap ka bhai

    Abu Subaih


  23. this is a load of crap. remember, US was an ally of pak against india those days so they were praising pakis. for actual info, go to wikipedia or mail me at nik007delta@gmail.com if u want to know what actually happened.

    now india has both qty and quality and dominates in every way. the world talks of her as a “success story” wheras pak is “most dangerous place on earth”. Watch BBC once in a while.


  24. Hate to break it to you guys but the situation these days is a lot different. India does have a qualitative superiority with their Su30, Mig29, and Mirage2000s. The 30 odd Pakistani F-16’s are two decades old technology. Pilot quality cannot overcome the overwhelming odds. Unfortunately that is the only area where we might be doing good & that too is because we have too few aircraft and a lot of talented candidates so we better be good at what we have. In an all out war Pakistani airforce will not survive more than a day against any of the western (NATO) airforces. Think what happened to Irag during the first gulf war. We might do 500% better than that but that would mean we’d last 24 hours instead of 5.

    We are our own worse enemy & we are being eaten from within. All we have going for us is our pride which is our greatest dillusion.

    by Tamerlane January 12, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    very good views Tamerlane. U seem to be realistic and sensible than all the pakis here combined. can we chat about these issues sometime sometime?


    • dear nikhil
      first of all i say 2 u that keep ur tounge in control.
      our army are most power full then urs bcouz Allah is with us.
      Allah has supreem power full. no body in earth and in another earth is able to fight with allah.
      we r muslims . every child of a muslim is born to fight.
      that all
      ALLAH HAFIZ
      FRM. Zaman Asif


  25. dear paki’s,first of all save your home from the fire of terrorism you spread in all over the world,now you are facing this fire at your own home.
    You all are seem to be well educated, but just think about yourself, a single minded personalities.Will you ever think that what future you are planning for you next generation.A nuclear War, a future with nothing bright.If we want to live a happy life we would plan for this today, this is our duties toward our nation, our society and towards this universe to save it, for the sake of humanity.As the Young generation, We have to think about our nations growth and prosperity and remove the hatered between two nations and also from religion basis.Peace and Environmental friendly attitude is the only way to save this earth.In this life of few days we spent live in spreading hatered just spent few hours in spreading fragrance of love,by forgetting about the boundaries, we will see the difference.

    Yes,here I got little bit emotional here, and as per above disscussions I have a lot of practicle view to tell you guys about India and Our army and also your Pak army, which will disgrace you, will share with you later. I don’t want to do that, just start a new age of friendship between to nations instead of destroying each-other. Don’t underestimate this message, as we afraid of Pak, but this is becoz we are Indian, and we believe in love, rather than hatered, and That’s Me, Real Muslim.We Muslim of India are Proud to be Indian.

    If you want a peacfull world a friendly neighbour, you are alway welcom, Jai Hind. allah hafhiz.

    Abdul hameed


  26. So you’re an indian muslim, calling yourself ‘Abdul Hameed’ and yet your email address is rahulkash.

    rightttttttttttt.


  27. dear indians,
    the only thing in todays world that plays its role in openion making is MEDIA, its your fortune taht you have got good coverage all aver the world, though your anchers and news channels dont even have ethics of broadcasting, they broadcast like an illetrate shouts over a leterate and thinks he is superior, But reality is that you yourself have got so many religious and racial movements in india, so many innocents are killed every coming dau in india, and people have No rights , they are killed nd hated on the basis of race and religion, Even you have so many sects in one hindu religion , and you descriminate , Muslims have been traeted adversely for a long time in India, Sikhs are fighting for their rights, You have occupyed Kashmir and you kill innocent kashmiris everyday, have you ever thought and tried to look into your own situation , what you say and what you do is totally different, You are the worlds most hypocrate nation at the moments. Pakistans electronic media is also getting streangth these days, and we can reveal to the worls what the reality is , Indian secret services are very much active to create tention in our northern areas and balochistan , India funds all the terrorists in Pakistan and due to its double standards has been victim of its own policies , in events like mumbai where india s been victim of its own terrorists.
    We never ignore our mistakes, we do accept them , But India should stop hypocracy, We know the future of our coming generations and we are well prepared, there is difference between what the world says , and what the ground realities are . so think about it


  28. Guys,

    Discuss the technical details. I knew that somewhere sometime some more Indians would pop up here and try and play down the PAF, without even discussing relevant backgrounds and head straight towards the usual India vs Pak in general type of BS. There’s a lot in India that systematically wrong in a social sense as well. But if you want to discuss that, then do it in another thread. Let’s stick to the AF discussion alone.

    I would like to ask our Indian friends here to post concrete comments on text from the main story. Also, feel free to comment on my own posts.


  29. AOA that is our past.our present is more bright then our past.we have now such technology that make us the best air force of the muslim countries and also PAF is best air force in the asia after the air forces of China & Russia.so our enemies should know that “we are the best”


  30. “PAF is best air force in the asia after the air forces of China & Russia”

    Lost ur nuts? IAF is acknowledged to be a shade better than chinese PLAAF:
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1492118/posts

    for all my paki friends who like to bash IAF, here are some wake up calls:

    http://www.defence.pk/pakistan-air-force/

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25865

    http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/08/us-spying-on-ou.html

    http://updatedfrequently.com/su-30mki-voted-best-fighter

    etc…


  31. Muslims not treated well in india?

    1. Shah Rukh Khan, the bollywood badshah. How can he get thousands of indian fans if they are racist against muslims?

    2. Salman khan. saif ali khan, amir khan,etc….
    Indian entertainment industry is dominated by muslims.

    3. The father of Indian missile and nuclear technology is an indian muslim.

    4.The song written by a muslim is accepted as national song of India.

    5. The former President of India and the supreme commander of indian armed forces was a muslim- APJ Abdul Kalam?

    6. need i go on?


  32. @ Nikhil:

    The info you presented demonstrates complete lack of understanding technical and strategic backgrounds of military setups. Nothing more than mere mentioning of numbers and names instead of additional subjects like logistics, maintenance, allocation of material and human resources, self reliance, domestic defense production, etc. These are all areas in which PAF maintains a clear lead through methods like for instance standardization and acquiring the absolute ‘best bang for the buck’. Oh, and let’s not forget: the article was written back in 2005 :P Drastic development has already taken place and more is to be followed up.

    Some more details published on Youtube about a USAF pilot in response to your sources:

    “The appearance of the clip in the cyber space had embarrassed the IAF even as it was immediately rubbished. The clip shows a pilot apparently giving a presentation but there are no audience shown in the video.

    The person, in uniform, talks about how the Su-30 MKIs were dominated by USAF’s F-15s and F-22 Raptors.

    The person said in the clip how the aircraft lost out during dogfights and singled out problems with its thrust vectoring and the fact that it took up to a minute to arrange its take-off while the rest of the aircraft took only seconds.”

    You really tend to think this machine is a cure for everything don’t you. I hope the IAF top brass agrees. It’s this complacent attitude that forms Pakistans first line of defence. Thanks for that.

    Finally, your last URL mentions the following:

    “Russian fighter was voted the best by 59% of visitors. American 5th-generation F-22 got 37% of votes.”

    You can’t possibly take this bullshit seriously. If you do you must have a serious superiority complex. The F22 at present is absolutely the best fighter aircraft in the world which cuts through anything else hands down.


  33. About your final comment: once again let’s stick to the airforce discussion alone here. I’ll be happy to respond to those fables you presented in a more appropriate thread on the site, just let me know where.


  34. Salam.

    @ Shia: We know how traitorous you guys can be… u consider Iran to be your “Holy Site” and don’t really have any special devotion to Pak.. though you are loyal to the elitist Shia lobby imposed upon as as the “Government”… Zardari, Talpoors, Naqvis, Bukharis, all damn Shias.

    @ Indian Guys Who Commented Here:
    Get a life! It’s a pity to see you get so psychologically tampered especially after Zaid Hamid has Bharat Verma’s ass whipped on live tv…
    And remember, we are coming… Delhi first? Hmm… yes, maybe near it… Muslimabad is indeed a good name… Inshallah all of India till the Tamil Nadu area or even that included… “abhi Sri Lankan Army k sath tum logo ki LTTE ka band bhi to bajana hay!” :)

    @ Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz (brother Dan):
    It’s nothing new that these wretched dastardly Hindu Zionists have been using pseudo-Muslim names to mislead innocent people… Thank you for this amazing article, you keep inspiring and motivating us, the Youth of Pakistan. Appreciate it a lot. May Allah Bless You and keep you firm and steaadfast. Aameen!


    • Shias are not traitors! Don’t fan the flames, Fool!
      Stay United!


  35. @ AAKhan

    “logistics, maintenance, allocation of material and human resources, self reliance, domestic defense production, etc. These are all areas in which PAF maintains a clear lead”

    —DUH! wake up dude . india leads on all these fronts. (maybe except mantainance bcos russian stuff are cheap 2 buy n exp to mantain) FOR EG:Using chinese help, 4th gen JF 17 is the best u cud do regarding “self reliance”. LCA is 4.5th gen Indian although induction will only take place next year. can u give me any eg. were pak dominates in any of these areas?

    “Some more details published on Youtube about a USAF pilot in response to your sources:”

    instead of what bloggers said, why dont u focus on what the pilot said? he said su 30mki is a “tad” better than USAF f15 f16. remember?

    he also said the reason that su 30 lost was that the pilots were young and inexperianced.

    So plz stop giving half facts and be non-biased.

    “You really tend to think this machine is a cure for everything don’t you. I hope the IAF top brass agrees. It’s this complacent attitude that forms Pakistans first line of defence. Thanks for that.”

    whatever gave u the idea that IAF is solely dependent on mki? stop writing crap? Dint u hear how the USAF pilot praised the mig21 bison and its “invisibility” and great weapons. remember it is the shittiest airplane in the IAF inventary.


  36. @ Zaki Khalid

    yes of course. During the interview, Zaid was hot headed warmonger who wanted to nuke India while Verma was calm cool and composed. Of couse Zaid won.

    WATCH ZAID HAMIDS INTERVIEW:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHggYBmwpIQ

    Regarding capturing delhi, pak needs a superior millitary. do u think it is possible?


  37. @ Zaki Khalid

    yes of course. During the interview, Zaid was hot headed warmonger who wanted to nuke India while Verma was calm cool and composed. Of couse Zaid won.

    WATCH ZAID HAMIDS INTERVIEW:

    Regarding capturing delhi, pak needs a superior millitary. do u think it is possible?


  38. hehehe..@Nikhil
    This is ridiculous. I cant believe that you are actually making fun of him. That gives some message. I am happy after seeing that. (Got a clue of the Indian mental situation) :)

    My father is also a retired PAF pilot. I know two things:
    1. India is spending a LOT more than Pakistan on defence (offcourse.. including Airforce). So, they have better aircrafts. Times have changed. It is not 60s and 70s. Technology can win wars.
    But…
    2. I know this too. PAF has better pilots who are WAITING. . . YES! They are waiting for anyone, ANYONE to violate the Homeland Airspace. The whole world watched it on TV, the Pakistanis watched with their own eyes. When India had her eyes on us after Mumbai attacks, PAF was READY.

    No one here can say who will win. India has the tech, we have the pilots. If we were to go on war, we would happily DIE defending our country. No questions, No wife, No little kids, No parents, No friends, No nothing. Just.. PAKISTAN and ISLAM. This is the spirit.
    Do the Indians have this? Dying for the country and GOD? If yes, then we should be friends.
    Seriously…!!


  39. “—DUH! wake up dude . india leads on all these fronts. (maybe except mantainance bcos russian stuff are cheap 2 buy n exp to mantain) FOR EG:Using chinese help, 4th gen JF 17 is the best u cud do regarding “self reliance”.”

    Thanks for the wake up call but i’m wide awake. PAF fortunately doesn’t have stupid R&D workers who think it would be okay to try and run before learning how to walk. They are rational enough to see that they had to learn from the Chinese and work with them to eventually become self reliant. R&D in Pakistani defence production doesn’t suffer from the ‘superpower’ culture like in India, they work on the basis of performance output alone. Self reliance here means that while Pakistan is now partly making the JF17 themselves and partly assembling ready made components, within the next few years this entire mature and combat ready system will be made 100% in Pakistan. Why do you think that countries like Azerbaijan are talking to Pakistan to buy the plane? Would they do that if they knew Pakistan will not be able to produce the plane and sell it? Get real. The JF17 is fitted with Chinese gear and can be upgraded with loads of advanced options more (which is planned to happen by the way). Its basics are very well suited to allow a backbone fighter role for a good number of countries worldwide. How many nations besides India are interested in LCA: none. This says about it. Nobody believes in it except for you guys. Even that stupid cow piss soda must have better export potential.

    With the LCA India tried to run before even knowing how to stand up straight. The project (and pretty much everything DRDO ever put their hands on) is a national embarrasment. The type of delays and cost overrun surrounding the LCA project are outrageous. Any country in their sane mind would have cancelled the project a long time ago and propose to the Russians to work together instead. Except ofcourse, in the fairytale land of Bollywood. If you don’t have the experience on building planes on beforehand plus a basic combat proven concept, then you shouldn’t bother trying to build one, what’s so hard to understand about that. Except for the Americans and the Russians for instance, because their R&D (especially research capacity) is immense, making their chances on starting from scratch very good. China is about to join that club. So the LCA is (finally :P) getting close to induction. Hurray, congratiolations to you. I hope for your sake the cost overrun in production is tax deductable :P

    “LCA is 4.5th gen Indian although induction will only take place next year.”

    Better hope that the avionics and armament are. I wonder if the airframe will be able to hold itself together during any complicated manoeuvre. So far we haven’t seen anything of it.

    “whatever gave u the idea that IAF is solely dependent on mki? stop writing crap?”

    Well basically, you did. Not that I am under the impression that the IAF is. But almost every time you get into a discussion with an Indian about the IAF they just can’t stop boasting about the MKI and they themselves merely mention the name of the other machines and leave it at that. This is my experience from this type of discussions atleast. Perhaps you should stop writing that type of crap.

    “instead of what bloggers said, why dont u focus on what the pilot said? he said su 30mki is a “tad” better than USAF f15 f16. remember?

    he also said the reason that su 30 lost was that the pilots were young and inexperianced.

    So plz stop giving half facts and be non-biased.”

    First off, Indians having sent inexperienced fighters is a lie. Watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJndMO1O80 at 3.50min. You clearly hear the guy say the Indians sent their best pilots and the US sent operational units with less experience. Having read this I don’t think you paid attention to what he said.

    I didn’t at all read what bloggers said, nor did I say anything that implies I did, so try to read and understand before you reply. I’m talking about what the pilot said. Having a plane that is a ‘tad’ bit better than what your opponent has is not exactly a major advantage when you’re up against the PAF. At the end of the day it’s the man inside the cockpit that really matters. To beat a really good pilot – like those in PAF – you need a great technological edge if you have had qualitatively worse off training – like the IAF – and not just a ‘tad bit’ more. The pilot in the video speaks about certain methods of how to handle TVC, for instance. I hardly believe PAF pilots would not know about those basic how to’s, plus a hell of a lot more, since their training puts a great focus on handling the Indians in particular. The pilot also speaks of the ridiculous time the MKI needs to take off, logistics problems with the engine, the fact that acrobatics is the only thing that resembles the F22, the fact that in technological terms the plane is a little bit better than F15 and F16, the experienced Indians vs the inexperienced USAF fighters, the Indian chest beating over their ‘victories’, admiration for the Bisons, the TVC stupidity, etc etc. Watch it if you haven’t yet.

    “Dint u hear how the USAF pilot praised the mig21 bison and its “invisibility” and great weapons. remember it is the shittiest airplane in the IAF inventary.”

    Which automatically suggests that every other plane must be better in all fields right? If that’s the case, what’s the use of diversifying the fleet, if the very best plane is also the best in every possible scenario? Your understanding of these issues is clearly seriously lacking.


  40. first of all, stop the insults. I have never known anyone who drinks cow piss nor have I heard anyone doing so in my 21 years in india. I heard about it from paki websites.
    morover , 90% things u write are false or exaggerated.

    2.
    U must realize that LCA is not because of India;s “superpower culture”, rather it is an attempt of the nascent indian aviation industry. Remember that India is compared to pak, far more scientifically and technologically advanced.Indian scientists working in India excel in the areas of defense technology, space research, electronics and avionics, etc. SOURCE:
    http://users.erols.com/ziqbal/ih2.htm
    hence it is its byproduct.
    How can any contry be interested in buying LCA if it is not even in IAF? unlike jf17 which is being inducted and bought by crappy countries like azbhikstan or whatever. Did u know indian arms exports r much greater than urs?

    “Better hope that the avionics and armament are. I wonder if the airframe will be able to hold itself together during any complicated manoeuvre. So far we haven’t seen anything of it.”— stop writing crap and stick to facts.

    “You clearly hear the guy say the Indians sent their best pilots and the US sent operational units with less experience.”— WRONG. I downloaded and saw the videos 10 times. Indians sent their best pilots in cope india were we beat them 9-1.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s04-wosc.html
    for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced and “extreemely professional”.

    He said that su 30mki were a “tad” better than USAF f16 and f15 not PAF f16 u dummy. do u know the HUGE difference between the two? He also said that mki is same as raptor (on paper). probably the only one.

    PAF pilots— I have some bad news. pilot skill depend only on training, experiance and a little morale. paf pilots are in no way an exception.
    There is also a false perception in pakistan that u “won” 65 war.

    U guys can never have international sources to back u up bcos everything u believe are lies.


    • just wana say that,,,,,,,,u need a bit knowledge and research,,,,,, u don kno wat u r talkin about,,,,,


  41. dear Talha Ahmed,

    I hate that zaid bastard and his lies trying to demean us Indian and our unity.

    “No one here can say who will win”
    uh.. are u living in the mountains? read this:
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25865

    “India has the tech, we have the pilots”
    u mean we dont have any? all we have are unmanned airplanes?

    “Do the Indians have this? Dying for the country and GOD?”
    –not really. compared to u pakis, Indians are somewhat unpatriotic and unrelegious.


  42. Quantity is nothing quality is everything. We ruked bharat for over one thousand years even when we were much lesser in numbers. We conquered small states and made it one counrty under one dominans.
    Strange how these indians can think that they can stand against their masters. Regarding to urine drinking: It`s a very common costum in india to drink ur own urin or the cow`s. In hindu vidyant its highley recommended. Even Gandhi used to drink his own piss. The indian minister Shastri who went to shimla agreement and died on his way back to Delhi after 1965 war. Just read his biography. He used to drink his own piss.
    This is ur moral and ethics.
    That india is bigger and have more population than Pak, dosent matter at all. When naked Afghanis could crush sovjets with Pak help, really what is india? Pak will crush it like a rat. India has 7 lakh army in Occupied Kashmir and still no controll. Pak army in such numbers would conquere Delhi within 24 hours.


  43. I am amused by your comments Nikhil. I didn’t insult you. You’re insulting me instead by calling me a dummy ;) Little cohesion in your posts, don’t you think? With cow piss I was referring to this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article5707554.ece which is indeed an Indian concept. RSS is not based anywhere else. Times Online is not a Pakistani website either. Anyway I won’t go too deep into that matter, let’s stick to the topic.

    “U must realize that LCA is not because of India;s “superpower culture”, rather it is an attempt of the nascent indian aviation industry. Remember that India is compared to pak, far more scientifically and technologically advanced.Indian scientists working in India excel in the areas of defense technology, space research, electronics and avionics, etc. SOURCE:
    http://users.erols.com/ziqbal/ih2.htm
    hence it is its byproduct.”

    Fine, let’s believe that for the sake of argument. So would you mind explaining the long list of DRDO failures over the past many years, and their lies to the public about their products capabilities? Is their technological expertise perhaps too advanced to curve their ideas out on raw hard metal? A detailed response here would be appreciated.

    “How can any contry be interested in buying LCA if it is not even in IAF? unlike jf17 which is being inducted and bought by crappy countries like azbhikstan or whatever. Did u know indian arms exports r much greater than urs?”

    Ehm… international interest for JF17 rose years before the plane was introduced in PAF. How could any country be interested anyway? They saw the progress, potential and cost/quality equation just like we did. All these factors are completely absent on LCA.

    ““Better hope that the avionics and armament are. I wonder if the airframe will be able to hold itself together during any complicated manoeuvre. So far we haven’t seen anything of it.”— stop writing crap and stick to facts.”

    Then let’s hear the facts??? As far as I have seen from demonstrations the LCA’s have only shown some basic maneouvres (correct me if í’m wrong and do share a corrective source, if available). JF17 has from the beginning pushing it’s curves to the maximum and it has done very well.

    “WRONG. I downloaded and saw the videos 10 times. Indians sent their best pilots in cope india were we beat them 9-1.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s04-wosc.html
    for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced and “extreemely professional”.”

    Alright, let’s see those Red Flag sources. I’ll happily accept your sources if they’re credible at it.

    “He said that su 30mki were a “tad” better than USAF f16 and f15 not PAF f16 u dummy. do u know the HUGE difference between the two? He also said that mki is same as raptor (on paper). probably the only one.”

    PAF F16s are undergoing modernization, their capabilities are not at a standstill. Newer blocks are coming in and older ones will receive MLU to be brought on par with the latest models.
    And here’s what he said about the comparison F22 vs SU30-MKI: “The SU30? No problem! Big airplane, big radar cross section. He’s jicking and jiving just to get to the merge, but he’s jamming. (…) When you roll in on him, and he’s got about 22 degrees, 23 degrees per second sustained turn, nowhere near the Raptor. We been fighting the Raptors, so we were like ‘dude this is easy.’ So we start to pull in on him and then all of a sudden (…) he starts to vector thrust, but now he starts falling out of the sky. He’s falling out of the sky so fast that you don’t even have to go up. You just pull the stick back a little bit, pull the throttles, go to guns and drill his brains out.” Honestly, trying to compare the SU30 to the Raptor is hopeless. But continue doing so anyway, having an adversary which overestimates itself is more of a advantage than an adversary that overestimates you.

    “PAF pilots— I have some bad news. pilot skill depend only on training, experiance and a little morale. paf pilots are in no way an exception.”

    What’s your point?

    “There is also a false perception in pakistan that u “won” 65 war.”

    The war itself went undecided as both countries had to stand down after the ceasefire. The air war however spoke for itself. Read the main post on this page to find your international sources, they’re authentic one by one.

    “U guys can never have international sources to back u up bcos everything u believe are lies.”

    There there, relax :) As I said, read the main post. And don’t expect anyone to believe your baseless assumptions about the various subjects you wrote about. It’ll be wiser to elaborate on issues appropriately instead of asking me to ‘stop writing crap’, that’s not an argument friend.


  44. oh! man r u talking about military power,so what happened in Lahore with Srilankan team bus .the terroists just chilled away as they were just chilling in their drawing room.plane,guns in sab se kuch nahi hota chalane wale me v jigar hona chahiye.12 terrorists flew away after killing so many from the heart of your prime city.these things never happens
    in a country that has military force.no one heard of this funny thing.yeh hai tumari shakti.or tum baat karte ho fighter jets ki .every military balance in asdia reveals that iaf is 2.6 times powerfull than paf.


  45. well i want to knw why the greatest tigers of PAF cant distroy drons ???


  46. Dont get downed by Paks ‘silence of the lamb’
    This is camel of Saleh (AS)
    Ababeels will guard it if all else fails
    By the way it wont fail
    Read the passage of Ghazwas in which Prophet (SAW)
    gave a stick to a sahabi, who didnt have sword !!
    Dont get fascinated with USAs natgeos documentry on Abraham , the US naval pride, this is the same without ‘m’, ababeels will drown it…

    Just have faith in this country and soil earned on 27th Ramadan ! We will not be wasted


  47. PART I
    \
    \Firstly regarding cow piss,
    u cant stereotype people people based on what a bunch of idots wud do. Ur land has Taliban, LET, etc… so can i expect u to tot guns and kill inoccent people? The idiocracy of rss and bjp failed to hit in any of towns or cities in india as far as I know although it seems some people ACTUALLY DRINK COW PISS. However, I can assure u that if any of my hindu friends drink cow piss, they’ll puke next.

    DRDO has a long list of failures, maybe. But what matters is it has a longer list of success so it is still in buisness. Regarding aviation, India’s Marut was a failure. Did u know that Russians and americans had dozens of failures when they developed aircraft? Failure is what happens when you develop war aircraft on ur own. What matters is you learn from the mistakes. Hence the delay in LCA. In fact I believe the actual induction to take place only by 2011. Once pak undertakes indegenous aircraft design and production, u will see. Remember one more thing. LCA is being designed not only forIAF but also 2 be compatible with Aircraft carriers that is no childs play. 2 weeks back our defense minister antony said that India is using the experiance gained from LCA in making MCA(hope u know what that is).

    “As far as I have seen from demonstrations the LCA’s have only shown some basic maneouvres (correct me if í’m wrong and do share a corrective source, if available). JF17 has from the beginning pushing it’s curves to the maximum and it has done very well.”
    –of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    http://in.geocities.com/skexz/03-12/lca.htm
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.

    “Alright, let’s see those Red Flag sources. I’ll happily accept your sources if they’re credible at it.”
    –you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)

    “Honestly, trying to compare the SU30 to the Raptor is hopeless.”
    –I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.

    “But continue doing so anyway, having an adversary which overestimates itself is more of a advantage than an adversary that overestimates you.”
    –LOL… it does not matter what i overestimate. The IAF is the one the PAF must take not me and I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots.


  48. Firstly regarding cow piss,
    u cant stereotype people people based on what a bunch of idots wud do. Ur land has Taliban, LET, etc… so can i expect u to tot guns and kill inoccent people? The idiocracy of rss and bjp failed to hit in any of towns or cities in india as far as I know although it seems some people ACTUALLY DRINK COW PISS. However, I can assure u that if any of my hindu friends drink cow piss, they’ll puke next.

    DRDO has a long list of failures, maybe. But what matters is it has a longer list of success so it is still in buisness. Regarding aviation, India’s Marut was a failure. Did u know that Russians and americans had dozens of failures when they developed aircraft? Failure is what happens when you develop war aircraft on ur own. What matters is you learn from the mistakes. Hence the delay in LCA. In fact I believe the actual induction to take place only by 2011. Once pak undertakes indegenous aircraft design and production, u will see. Remember one more thing. LCA is being designed not only forIAF but also 2 be compatible with Aircraft carriers that is no childs play. 2 weeks back our defense minister antony said that India is using the experiance gained from LCA in making MCA(hope u know what that is).

    “As far as I have seen from demonstrations the LCA’s have only shown some basic maneouvres (correct me if í’m wrong and do share a corrective source, if available). JF17 has from the beginning pushing it’s curves to the maximum and it has done very well.”
    –of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    http://in.geocities.com/skexz/03-12/lca.htm
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.

    “Alright, let’s see those Red Flag sources. I’ll happily accept your sources if they’re credible at it.”
    –you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)

    “Honestly, trying to compare the SU30 to the Raptor is hopeless.”
    –I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.

    “But continue doing so anyway, having an adversary which overestimates itself is more of a advantage than an adversary that overestimates you.”
    –LOL… it does not matter what i overestimate. The IAF is the one the PAF must take not me and I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots.


  49. @AAKhan
    \
    \Firstly regarding cow piss,
    u cant stereotype people people based on what a bunch of idots wud do. Ur land has Taliban, LET, etc… so can i expect u to tot guns and kill inoccent people? The idiocracy of rss and bjp failed to hit in any of towns or cities in india as far as I know although it seems some people ACTUALLY DRINK COW PISS. However, I can assure u that if any of my hindu friends drink cow piss, they’ll puke next.

    DRDO has a long list of failures, maybe. But what matters is it has a longer list of success so it is still in buisness. Regarding aviation, India’s Marut was a failure. Did u know that Russians and americans had dozens of failures when they developed aircraft? Failure is what happens when you develop war aircraft on ur own. What matters is you learn from the mistakes. Hence the delay in LCA. In fact I believe the actual induction to take place only by 2011. Once pak undertakes indegenous aircraft design and production, u will see. Remember one more thing. LCA is being designed not only forIAF but also 2 be compatible with Aircraft carriers that is no childs play. 2 weeks back our defense minister antony said that India is using the experiance gained from LCA in making MCA(hope u know what that is).

    “As far as I have seen from demonstrations the LCA’s have only shown some basic maneouvres (correct me if í’m wrong and do share a corrective source, if available). JF17 has from the beginning pushing it’s curves to the maximum and it has done very well.”
    –of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    http://in.geocities.com/skexz/03-12/lca.htm
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.

    “Alright, let’s see those Red Flag sources. I’ll happily accept your sources if they’re credible at it.”
    –you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)

    “Honestly, trying to compare the SU30 to the Raptor is hopeless.”
    –I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.

    “But continue doing so anyway, having an adversary which overestimates itself is more of a advantage than an adversary that overestimates you.”
    –LOL… it does not matter what i overestimate. The IAF is the one the PAF must take not me and I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots.

    PAF will be upgraded to blk50 while USAF has blk60.
    Morover, PAF has about 45 f16 while IAF about 125 mki.(aprox)

    “What’s your point?”–regarding PAF pilots? Pakis consider them to be invinsible gods and I want to say they are not that but just humans whose perfomance depends solely on experiance and training.

    “The air war however spoke for itself. Read the main post on this page to find your international sources, they’re authentic one by one.”
    PAF is no doubt very exceptional compared to an average country. But there are points u must know:

    1.Only articles that praise PAF has been selected. IAF achievments have been left out.

    2.The American provided airplane jets were far superior to the ones used by IAF. mig21 which came later was also not as good. another websites highlites the IAF: http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies_west.html

    3.Notice that all above sources praising PAF were american or western which were allied with pak during coldwar. It is obvious they will praise their ally and ignore the defects.

    and finally

    4.Currently, I have read so many many non-Indians in their blogs praising the IAF, but the only praise for PAF i have read is from pakis. Also a recently made sept. 08 report from USA titled “Losing Air dominance” regarding threat assesment, they said regarding IAF “In the past decade, the IAF has built an admirable record of professionalism and achievement” and not a single word about PAF.
    http://www.afa.org/Mitchell/Reports/0908air_dominance.pdf

    for eg: check out the blogs where some guys (only non indians) compare the millitary of india and china and some conclude that India is in a slightly better shape.
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77047

    U tell me. can pak be compared to China like that?


  50. GODDAMIT COPY PASTE DOES NOT WORK HERE? I HAD A WHOLE SPEECH MADE FOR AAKHAN

    anyway regarding 65 war read this. very reliable.
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1965War/Lal-65.htm


  51. PART I
    \Firstly regarding cow piss,
    u cant stereotype people people based on what a bunch of idots wud do. Ur land has Taliban, LET, etc… so can i expect u to tot guns and kill inoccent people? The idiocracy of rss and bjp failed to hit in any of towns or cities in india as far as I know although it seems some people ACTUALLY DRINK COW PISS. However, I can assure u that if any of my hindu friends drink cow piss, they’ll puke next.

    DRDO has a long list of failures, maybe. But what matters is it has a longer list of success so it is still in buisness. Regarding aviation, India’s Marut was a failure. Did u know that Russians and americans had dozens of failures when they developed aircraft? Failure is what happens when you develop war aircraft on ur own. What matters is you learn from the mistakes. Hence the delay in LCA. In fact I believe the actual induction to take place only by 2011. Once pak undertakes indegenous aircraft design and production, u will see. Remember one more thing. LCA is being designed not only forIAF but also 2 be compatible with Aircraft carriers that is no childs play. 2 weeks back our defense minister antony said that India is using the experiance gained from LCA in making MCA(hope u know what that is).


  52. PART II\
    “As far as I have seen from demonstrations the LCA’s have only shown some basic maneouvres (correct me if í’m wrong and do share a corrective source, if available). JF17 has from the beginning pushing it’s curves to the maximum and it has done very well.”
    –of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    http://in.geocities.com/skexz/03-12/lca.htm
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.

    “Alright, let’s see those Red Flag sources. I’ll happily accept your sources if they’re credible at it.”
    –you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)

    “Honestly, trying to compare the SU30 to the Raptor is hopeless.”
    –I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.


  53. PART II
    \”As far as I have seen from demonstrations the LCA’s have only shown some basic maneouvres (correct me if í’m wrong and do share a corrective source, if available). JF17 has from the beginning pushing it’s curves to the maximum and it has done very well.”
    –of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    (source not getting pasted)
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.

    “Alright, let’s see those Red Flag sources. I’ll happily accept your sources if they’re credible at it.”
    –you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)

    “Honestly, trying to compare the SU30 to the Raptor is hopeless.”
    –I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.


  54. PART III
    \”But continue doing so anyway, having an adversary which overestimates itself is more of a advantage than an adversary that overestimates you.”
    –LOL… it does not matter what i overestimate. The IAF is the one the PAF must take not me and I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots.

    PAF will be upgraded to blk50 while USAF has blk60.
    Morover, PAF has about 45 f16 while IAF about 125 mki.(aprox)

    “What’s your point?”–regarding PAF pilots? Pakis consider them to be invinsible gods and I want to say they are not that but just humans whose perfomance depends solely on experiance and training.

    “The air war however spoke for itself. Read the main post on this page to find your international sources, they’re authentic one by one.”
    PAF is no doubt very exceptional compared to an average country. But there are points u must know:

    1.Only articles that praise PAF has been selected. IAF achievments have been left out.

    2.The American provided airplane jets were far superior to the ones used by IAF. mig21 which came later was also not as good. another websites highlites the IAF: http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies_west.html

    3.Notice that all above sources praising PAF were american or western which were allied with pak during coldwar. It is obvious they will praise their ally and ignore the defects.

    and finally

    4.Currently, I have read so many many non-Indians in their blogs praising the IAF, but the only praise for PAF i have read is from pakis. Also a recently made sept. 08 report from USA titled “Losing Air dominance” regarding threat assesment, they said regarding IAF “In the past decade, the IAF has built an admirable record of professionalism and achievement” and not a single word about PAF.
    http://www.afa.org/Mitchell/Reports/0908air_dominance.pdf

    for eg: check out the blogs where some guys (only non indians) compare the millitary of india and china and some conclude that India is in a slightly better shape.
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77047

    U tell me. can pak be compared to China like that?


  55. @ mughal

    Stop writing nonsense. Go somwhere else and get a life.


  56. If you think Pakistani’s are writing non sense than you shouldn’t visit this site…Make your own site and write your so-called truth over there!

    This is a Pakistani site..YOU go somewhere else and get a life!


  57. AAkhan I am anxiously waiting for your reply to Nikhil. You guys have had an interesting conversation so far. :D


  58. great going nikhil http://www.afa.org/Mitchell/Reports/0908air_dominance.pdf
    this one is a great website .I
    think that the pak dudes has got their ans.


  59. [...] Read More Share and Enjoy: [...]


  60. why should I read this biased crap ?


  61. @Ad:

    Sorry about that. I’ve been very busy working on my own site.

    “GODDAMIT COPY PASTE DOES NOT WORK HERE? I HAD A WHOLE SPEECH MADE FOR AAKHAN”

    Stop blaming the website. Copy/paste works just fine here, have your system checked out.

    “anyway regarding 65 war read this. very reliable.
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1965War/Lal-65.htm

    It was a nice read, thanks for that. However you have to do better than that to speak of a ‘neutral source.’ Reliability of stuff made and published by Indians is not accepted as a neutral source (same goes for Pakistani publications ofcourse).

    “Firstly regarding cow piss,
    u cant stereotype people people based on what a bunch of idots wud do. Ur land has Taliban, LET, etc… so can i expect u to tot guns and kill inoccent people? The idiocracy of rss and bjp failed to hit in any of towns or cities in india as far as I know although it seems some people ACTUALLY DRINK COW PISS. However, I can assure u that if any of my hindu friends drink cow piss, they’ll puke next.”

    I didn’t ‘stereotype’ by it neither do I mean to insult. I was making a comparison about exports, read the initial post again if in doubt. If you still think it was an insult, please explain why so.

    “DRDO has a long list of failures, maybe. But what matters is it has a longer list of success so it is still in buisness.”

    Well I would appreciate it if you educate us on those successes. I’d hate it if we were to remain ignorant to those facts, it would be like pointing out one’s errors alone despite that one having more good features to compensate.

    “Regarding aviation, India’s Marut was a failure. Did u know that Russians and americans had dozens of failures when they developed aircraft? Failure is what happens when you develop war aircraft on ur own. What matters is you learn from the mistakes. Hence the delay in LCA.”

    The US and Russia are an entirely different story, as these players are in a league of their own. They were the ones that started the game and no one in the world knew how to play along, so they had to do it on their own. I hardly believe that they would not ask friendly nations for help, if those countries happened to have advanced in aviation more than them. As far as India is concerned, what was the need to necessarily try and build planes completely on their own? When they started off, they didn’t have the technological knowhow. Why was it more feasible to make it alone as compared to try and buy from Russia (for instance) or propose to jointly develop a plane? The ‘delay’ as you put it, meant at times that a lot of people inside and outside India wondered for your if the plane would even come out one day. It’s one hell of a delay to have have things so bad. The money that was spoiled over this misadventure could’ve been used for much more useful things such as social development projects.

    “In fact I believe the actual induction to take place only by 2011. Once pak undertakes indegenous aircraft design and production, u will see.”

    I don’t believe PAF will ever undertake such a solo mission during this generation, no way. They don’t take that type of risks in terms of time and money. The next plane concept will also be jointly developed and produced with China. China is a reliable and sincere ally, thus the future of our aviation is as safe as we could wish.

    “Remember one more thing. LCA is being designed not only forIAF but also 2 be compatible with Aircraft carriers that is no childs play.”

    Care to elaborate why that design is so radically different from the conventional one then?

    “2 weeks back our defense minister antony said that India is using the experiance gained from LCA in making MCA(hope u know what that is).”

    Yes, I know what that is. It means MCA’s future is looking grim already. Unless they’re wise enough to pull in the Russians to help. I hope you know what the J-XX is.

    “of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    (source not getting pasted)
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.”

    Once again: source please. As far as I have seen on Youtube maneouvring was not so mind blowing as one would hope to see.

    “–you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)”

    If that’s true I must have been watching the wrong video then. Let’s hear it.

    “I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.”

    Battles are not fought on paper. Nor are planes evaluated on paper in a thorough research.

    “–LOL… it does not matter what i overestimate. The IAF is the one the PAF must take not me and I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots.”

    Don’t worry about that. The PAF worked to their absolute maximum all along against all odds. During sanctions countries stopped selling planes so PAF kept what they had in tiptop condition + bought and restored obsolete foreign planes to absolutely excellent condition + worked with the Chinese to produce the JF17. I didn’t say the IAF are a bunch of idiots but neither are the PAF.

    “PAF will be upgraded to blk50 while USAF has blk60.”

    Lol I didn’t know the yanks took 60′s too India? I thought only the UAE flew those! Would you mind proving that the USAF used Block 60 against IAF?

    “Morover, PAF has about 45 f16 while IAF about 125 mki.(aprox)”

    So? That number can be reduced significantly by bombing air bases with ballistic missiles, which is not very hard to do for the army and highly likely to happen in case of an all out war.

    “regarding PAF pilots? Pakis consider them to be invinsible gods and I want to say they are not that but just humans whose perfomance depends solely on experiance and training.”

    That would be your word against mine and I disagree that they regard themselves as such. with such an attitude they could never have gotten to a point where their training reached such excellent standards.

    “PAF is no doubt very exceptional compared to an average country. But there are points u must know:

    1.Only articles that praise PAF has been selected. IAF achievments have been left out.

    2.The American provided airplane jets were far superior to the ones used by IAF. mig21 which came later was also not as good. another websites highlites the IAF: http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies_west.html

    3.Notice that all above sources praising PAF were american or western which were allied with pak during coldwar. It is obvious they will praise their ally and ignore the defects.

    and finally

    4.Currently, I have read so many many non-Indians in their blogs praising the IAF, but the only praise for PAF i have read is from pakis. Also a recently made sept. 08 report from USA titled “Losing Air dominance” regarding threat assesment, they said regarding IAF “In the past decade, the IAF has built an admirable record of professionalism and achievement” and not a single word about PAF.
    http://www.afa.org/Mitchell/Reports/0908air_dominance.pdf

    for eg: check out the blogs where some guys (only non indians) compare the millitary of india and china and some conclude that India is in a slightly better shape.
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77047

    U tell me. can pak be compared to China like that?”

    1) And that’s a good number of articles, which speaks for itself in terms of various independently verifiable sources.

    2) The point I am trying to make was that the air war was a success for PAF. As Vin Diesel once beautifully put it in a movie: “it doesn’t matter whether you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning.” Btw having superior planes doesn’t mean pilots can sit on their ass and do nothing while the plane does all the work. Dealing with a much bigger air force is a daunting task on itself and the pilots have done a marvellous job at it.

    3) Chuck Yeagers account of events explains about everything, as he points out he literally saw what was shot down. He also says ‘The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war.’ Wouldn’t he have left this part out if he was to only praise the Pakistanis? He must have forgotten to ignore the defects.

    4) Hahahaha the wonderful world of blogs. I read comments in the JF17 youtube from users who ‘did’t know Pakistan had an air force.’ Let’s not make too much of a point out of the views of these general public arm chair generals. Those morons from the second link don’t seem to have much in-depth technical understanding, everyone is guessing. No Pakistan cannot be compared to China. Can Israel be compared to all of the air forces of it’s surrounding neighbors? Try and understand the assumption that you make.

    Regarding the first link, it’s a useful one. However it does not surprise me that PAF isn’t mentioned. It’s a document on air dominance on a global level. Quantity is what matters to be considered here, something that PAF doesn’t necessarily have. I will once again mention Israel: their air force is beyond doubt the third, second or very best air force in the world in term of capabilities. They aren’t mentioned anywhere in the document either, thus ‘Israeli air dominance’ is not considered. Furthermore, individual pilot skills are not necessarily a decisive factor in defining one’s air dominance.

    Thanks for the non-offensive reply, keep it up.


  62. @Ad:

    Sorry about that. I’ve been very busy working on my own site.

    “GODDAMIT COPY PASTE DOES NOT WORK HERE? I HAD A WHOLE SPEECH MADE FOR AAKHAN”

    Stop blaming the website. Copy/paste works just fine here, have your system checked out.

    “anyway regarding 65 war read this. very reliable.
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1965War/Lal-65.htm

    It was a nice read, thanks for that. However you have to do better than that to speak of a ‘neutral source.’ Reliability of stuff made and published by Indians is not accepted as a neutral source (same goes for Pakistani publications ofcourse).

    “Firstly regarding cow piss,
    u cant stereotype people people based on what a bunch of idots wud do. Ur land has Taliban, LET, etc… so can i expect u to tot guns and kill inoccent people? The idiocracy of rss and bjp failed to hit in any of towns or cities in india as far as I know although it seems some people ACTUALLY DRINK COW PISS. However, I can assure u that if any of my hindu friends drink cow piss, they’ll puke next.”

    I didn’t ‘stereotype’ by it neither do I mean to insult. I was making a comparison about exports, read the initial post again if in doubt. If you still think it was an insult, please explain why so.

    “DRDO has a long list of failures, maybe. But what matters is it has a longer list of success so it is still in buisness.”

    Well I would appreciate it if you educate us on those successes. I’d hate it if we were to remain ignorant to those facts, it would be like pointing out one’s errors alone despite that one having more good features to compensate.

    “Regarding aviation, India’s Marut was a failure. Did u know that Russians and americans had dozens of failures when they developed aircraft? Failure is what happens when you develop war aircraft on ur own. What matters is you learn from the mistakes. Hence the delay in LCA.”

    The US and Russia are an entirely different story, as these players are in a league of their own. They were the ones that started the game and no one in the world knew how to play along, so they had to do it on their own. I hardly believe that they would not ask friendly nations for help, if those countries happened to have advanced in aviation more than them. As far as India is concerned, what was the need to necessarily try and build planes completely on their own? When they started off, they didn’t have the technological knowhow. Why was it more feasible to make it alone as compared to try and buy from Russia (for instance) or propose to jointly develop a plane? The ‘delay’ as you put it, meant at times that a lot of people inside and outside India wondered for your if the plane would even come out one day. It’s one hell of a delay to have have things so bad. The money that was spoiled over this misadventure could’ve been used for much more useful things such as social development projects.

    “In fact I believe the actual induction to take place only by 2011. Once pak undertakes indegenous aircraft design and production, u will see.”

    I don’t believe PAF will ever undertake such a solo mission during this generation, no way. They don’t take that type of risks in terms of time and money. The next plane concept will also be jointly developed and produced with China. China is a reliable and sincere ally, thus the future of our aviation is as safe as we could wish.

    “Remember one more thing. LCA is being designed not only forIAF but also 2 be compatible with Aircraft carriers that is no childs play.”

    Care to elaborate why that design is so radically different from the conventional one then?

    “2 weeks back our defense minister antony said that India is using the experiance gained from LCA in making MCA(hope u know what that is).”

    Yes, I know what that is. It means MCA’s future is looking grim already. Unless they’re wise enough to pull in the Russians to help. I hope you know what the J-XX is.

    “of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    (source not getting pasted)
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.”

    Once again: source please. As far as I have seen on Youtube maneouvring was not so mind blowing as one would hope to see.

    “–you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)”

    If that’s true I must have been watching the wrong video then. Let’s hear it.

    “I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.”

    Battles are not fought on paper. Nor are planes evaluated on paper in a thorough research.

    “–LOL… it does not matter what i overestimate. The IAF is the one the PAF must take not me and I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots.”

    Don’t worry about that. The PAF worked to their absolute maximum all along against all odds. During sanctions countries stopped selling planes so PAF kept what they had in tiptop condition + bought and restored obsolete foreign planes to absolutely excellent condition + worked with the Chinese to produce the JF17. I didn’t say the IAF are a bunch of idiots but neither are the PAF.

    “PAF will be upgraded to blk50 while USAF has blk60.”

    Lol I didn’t know the yanks took 60′s too India? I thought only the UAE flew those! Would you mind proving that the USAF used Block 60 against IAF?

    “Morover, PAF has about 45 f16 while IAF about 125 mki.(aprox)”

    So? That number can be reduced significantly by bombing air bases with ballistic missiles, which is not very hard to do for the army and highly likely to happen in case of an all out war.

    “regarding PAF pilots? Pakis consider them to be invinsible gods and I want to say they are not that but just humans whose perfomance depends solely on experiance and training.”

    That would be your word against mine and I disagree that they regard themselves as such. with such an attitude they could never have gotten to a point where their training reached such excellent standards.

    “PAF is no doubt very exceptional compared to an average country. But there are points u must know:

    1.Only articles that praise PAF has been selected. IAF achievments have been left out.

    2.The American provided airplane jets were far superior to the ones used by IAF. mig21 which came later was also not as good. another websites highlites the IAF: http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies_west.html

    3.Notice that all above sources praising PAF were american or western which were allied with pak during coldwar. It is obvious they will praise their ally and ignore the defects.

    and finally

    4.Currently, I have read so many many non-Indians in their blogs praising the IAF, but the only praise for PAF i have read is from pakis. Also a recently made sept. 08 report from USA titled “Losing Air dominance” regarding threat assesment, they said regarding IAF “In the past decade, the IAF has built an admirable record of professionalism and achievement” and not a single word about PAF.
    http://www.afa.org/Mitchell/Reports/0908air_dominance.pdf

    for eg: check out the blogs where some guys (only non indians) compare the millitary of india and china and some conclude that India is in a slightly better shape.
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77047

    U tell me. can pak be compared to China like that?”

    1) And that’s a good number of articles, which speaks for itself in terms of various independently verifiable sources.

    2) The point I am trying to make was that the air war was a success for PAF. As Vin Diesel once beautifully put it in a movie: “it doesn’t matter whether you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning.” Btw having superior planes doesn’t mean pilots can sit on their ass and do nothing while the plane does all the work. Dealing with a much bigger air force is a daunting task on itself and the pilots have done a marvellous job at it.

    3) Chuck Yeagers account of events explains about everything, as he points out he literally saw what was shot down. He also says ‘The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war.’ Wouldn’t he have left this part out if he was to only praise the Pakistanis? He must have forgotten to ignore the defects.

    4) Hahahaha the wonderful world of blogs. I read comments in the JF17 youtube from users who ‘did’t know Pakistan had an air force.’ Let’s not make too much of a point out of the views of these general public arm chair generals. Those morons from the second link don’t seem to have much in-depth technical understanding, everyone is guessing. No Pakistan cannot be compared to China. Can Israel be compared to all of the air forces of it’s surrounding neighbors? Try and understand the assumption that you make.

    Regarding the first link, it’s a useful one. However it does not surprise me that PAF isn’t mentioned. It’s a document on air dominance on a global level. Quantity is what matters to be considered here, something that PAF doesn’t necessarily have. I will once again mention Israel: their air force is beyond doubt the third, second or very best air force in the world in term of capabilities. They aren’t mentioned anywhere in the document either, thus ‘Israeli air dominance’ is not considered. Furthermore, individual pilot skills are not necessarily a decisive factor in defining one’s air dominance.


  63. Moderator, where’s my post? I posted twice to be sure. If it’s up for approval, please do remove the double post, thanks.


  64. Strange, it just didn’t come through I see. I’ll post in parts.

    First part:

    @Ad:

    Sorry about that. I’ve been very busy working on my own site.

    “anyway regarding 65 war read this. very reliable.
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1965War/Lal-65.htm

    It was a nice read, thanks for that. However you have to do better than that to speak of a ‘neutral source.’ Reliability of stuff made and published by Indians is not accepted as a neutral source (same goes for Pakistani publications ofcourse).

    “Firstly regarding cow piss,
    u cant stereotype people people based on what a bunch of idots wud do. Ur land has Taliban, LET, etc… so can i expect u to tot guns and kill inoccent people? The idiocracy of rss and bjp failed to hit in any of towns or cities in india as far as I know although it seems some people ACTUALLY DRINK COW PISS. However, I can assure u that if any of my hindu friends drink cow piss, they’ll puke next.”

    I didn’t ‘stereotype’ by it neither do I mean to insult. I was making a comparison about exports, read the initial post again if in doubt. If you still think it was an insult, please explain why so.

    “DRDO has a long list of failures, maybe. But what matters is it has a longer list of success so it is still in buisness.”

    Well I would appreciate it if you educate us on those successes. I’d hate it if we were to remain ignorant to those facts, it would be like pointing out one’s errors alone despite that one having more good features to compensate.

    “Regarding aviation, India’s Marut was a failure. Did u know that Russians and americans had dozens of failures when they developed aircraft? Failure is what happens when you develop war aircraft on ur own. What matters is you learn from the mistakes. Hence the delay in LCA.”

    The US and Russia are an entirely different story, as these players are in a league of their own. They were the ones that started the game and no one in the world knew how to play along, so they had to do it on their own. I hardly believe that they would not ask friendly nations for help, if those countries happened to have advanced in aviation more than them. As far as India is concerned, what was the need to necessarily try and build planes completely on their own? When they started off, they didn’t have the technological knowhow. Why was it more feasible to make it alone as compared to try and buy from Russia (for instance) or propose to jointly develop a plane? The ‘delay’ as you put it, meant at times that a lot of people inside and outside India wondered for your if the plane would even come out one day. It’s one hell of a delay to have have things so bad. The money that was spoiled over this misadventure could’ve been used for much more useful things such as social development projects.

    “In fact I believe the actual induction to take place only by 2011. Once pak undertakes indegenous aircraft design and production, u will see.”

    I don’t believe PAF will ever undertake such a solo mission during this generation, no way. They don’t take that type of risks in terms of time and money. The next plane concept will also be jointly developed and produced with China. China is a reliable and sincere ally, thus the future of our aviation is as safe as we could wish.

    “Remember one more thing. LCA is being designed not only forIAF but also 2 be compatible with Aircraft carriers that is no childs play.”

    Care to elaborate why that design is so radically different from the conventional one then?


  65. Second part:

    “2 weeks back our defense minister antony said that India is using the experiance gained from LCA in making MCA(hope u know what that is).”

    Yes, I know what that is. It means MCA’s future is looking grim already. Unless they’re wise enough to pull in the Russians to help. I hope you know what the J-XX is.

    “of course LCA can do anything! All my life I have not seen paris. does that mean it does not exist? it is the world’s smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. its delta wings are meant for superior moves.
    (source not getting pasted)
    I will be very suprised if it cannot outmaneuver jf17.”

    Once again: source please. As far as I have seen on Youtube maneouvring was not so mind blowing as one would hope to see.

    “–you mean for red flag su 30 pilots were young and inexperianced ? its rit there in the video. (i’ll tell u exactly after i see it again)”

    If that’s true I must have been watching the wrong video then. Let’s hear it.

    “I never said they are comparable. I just said that the USAF pilot said that they are equal on paper.”

    Battles are not fought on paper. Nor are planes evaluated on paper in a thorough research.

    “–LOL… it does not matter what i overestimate. The IAF is the one the PAF must take not me and I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots.”

    Don’t worry about that. The PAF worked to their absolute maximum all along against all odds. During sanctions countries stopped selling planes so PAF kept what they had in tiptop condition + bought and restored obsolete foreign planes to absolutely excellent condition + worked with the Chinese to produce the JF17. I didn’t say the IAF are a bunch of idiots but neither are the PAF.

    “PAF will be upgraded to blk50 while USAF has blk60.”

    Lol I didn’t know the yanks took 60′s too India? I thought only the UAE flew those! Would you mind proving that the USAF used Block 60 against IAF?

    “Morover, PAF has about 45 f16 while IAF about 125 mki.(aprox)”

    So? That number can be reduced significantly by bombing air bases with ballistic missiles, which is not very hard to do for the army and highly likely to happen in case of an all out war.

    “regarding PAF pilots? Pakis consider them to be invinsible gods and I want to say they are not that but just humans whose perfomance depends solely on experiance and training.”

    That would be your word against mine and I disagree that they regard themselves as such. with such an attitude they could never have gotten to a point where their training reached such excellent standards.


  66. Third part:

    “PAF is no doubt very exceptional compared to an average country. But there are points u must know:

    1.Only articles that praise PAF has been selected. IAF achievments have been left out.

    2.The American provided airplane jets were far superior to the ones used by IAF. mig21 which came later was also not as good. another websites highlites the IAF: http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies_west.html

    3.Notice that all above sources praising PAF were american or western which were allied with pak during coldwar. It is obvious they will praise their ally and ignore the defects.

    and finally

    4.Currently, I have read so many many non-Indians in their blogs praising the IAF, but the only praise for PAF i have read is from pakis. Also a recently made sept. 08 report from USA titled “Losing Air dominance” regarding threat assesment, they said regarding IAF “In the past decade, the IAF has built an admirable record of professionalism and achievement” and not a single word about PAF.
    http://www.afa.org/Mitchell/Reports/0908air_dominance.pdf

    for eg: check out the blogs where some guys (only non indians) compare the millitary of india and china and some conclude that India is in a slightly better shape.
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77047

    U tell me. can pak be compared to China like that?”

    1) And that’s a good number of articles, which speaks for itself in terms of various independently verifiable sources.

    2) The point I am trying to make was that the air war was a success for PAF. As Vin Diesel once beautifully put it in a movie: “it doesn’t matter whether you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning.” Btw having superior planes doesn’t mean pilots can sit on their ass and do nothing while the plane does all the work. Dealing with a much bigger air force is a daunting task on itself and the pilots have done a marvellous job at it.

    3) Chuck Yeagers account of events explains about everything, as he points out he literally saw what was shot down. He also says ‘The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war.’ Wouldn’t he have left this part out if he was to only praise the Pakistanis? He must have forgotten to ignore the defects.

    4) Hahahaha the wonderful world of blogs. I read comments in the JF17 youtube from users who ‘did’t know Pakistan had an air force.’ Let’s not make too much of a point out of the views of these general public arm chair generals. Those morons from the second link don’t seem to have much in-depth technical understanding, everyone is guessing. No Pakistan cannot be compared to China. Can Israel be compared to all of the air forces of it’s surrounding neighbors? Try and understand the assumption that you make.

    Regarding the first link, it’s a useful one. However it does not surprise me that PAF isn’t mentioned. It’s a document on air dominance on a global level. Quantity is what matters to be considered here, something that PAF doesn’t necessarily have. I will once again mention Israel: their air force is beyond doubt the third, second or very best air force in the world in term of capabilities. They aren’t mentioned anywhere in the document either, thus ‘Israeli air dominance’ is not considered. Furthermore, individual pilot skills are not necessarily a decisive factor in defining one’s air dominance.


  67. Correction on LCA part:

    ‘The ‘delay’ as you put it, meant at times that a lot of people inside and outside India wondered for YEARS if the plane would even come out one day.’


  68. There they are :s Mod, is it possible to remove the double post and the three ‘parts’?


  69. “It was a nice read, thanks for that. However you have to do better than that to speak of a ‘neutral source.’ Reliability of stuff made and published by Indians is not accepted as a neutral source (same goes for Pakistani publications ofcourse).”

    This report is that of a very high ranking Indian millitary official. It is unlikely that he will lie about anything. can u point any part of his story that was false?
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1965War/Lal-65.htm

    DRDO achivements
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Research_and_Development_Organisation

    ” As far as India is concerned, what was the need to necessarily try and build planes completely on their own? When they started off, they didn’t have the technological knowhow. Why was it more feasible to make it alone as compared to try and buy from Russia (for instance) or propose to jointly develop a plane? The ‘delay’ as you put it, meant at times that a lot of people inside and outside India wondered for your if the plane would even come out one day. It’s one hell of a delay to have have things so bad. The money that was spoiled over this misadventure could’ve been used for much more useful things such as social development projects.

    Every country that aspires to be a world power has to have its own independent aviation industry just like china succeeded and india is trying to.

    “Care to elaborate why that design is so radically different from the conventional one then?”
    OF COURSE so many. why then cant we fly su30mki or mig29 from a carrier? Why cant the US fly f22 on their carrier? A plane that is meant for a cairrier has a lot many different requirements. I have not been able to find a good source, but from what I know, it should have a very strong airframe because of short landing stretch, entirely different and strong landing gear and internal support systems that compramises many other things, small wingspan for preserving area, etc…

    “It means MCA’s future is looking grim already”
    How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

    JXX- Chinese 5th gen? I believe MCA was started to counter this.

    RED FLAG USAF PILOT COMMENTS

    Video part 1 –
    3:48
    When we went over to India and fought them, they always had their best pilots, we fought them at their Nellis….

    4:27
    They come to Mountain Home,…..with an experience level of 50-50. Their experienced guys all came in the mig 21 bison….

    Video part 2 –
    00:30
    When their pilots learn how to fly the airplane (mki), they’ll be able to beat the f15 and f16s on a regular basis. Right now they are just young guys….

    “Battles are not fought on paper. Nor are planes evaluated on paper in a thorough research.”
    True. But my point is that an aircraft that can equal the f 22 on paper must be a formidable airplane indeed. An airforce that hosts hundreds of them is no joke.

    “Lol I didn’t know the yanks took 60’s too India? I thought only the UAE flew those! Would you mind proving that the USAF used Block 60 against IAF?”
    Sorry my mistake. They use super vipers i think which is even better than blk 60.(which they are trying to sell to us at MRCA)

    “So? That number can be reduced significantly by bombing air bases with ballistic missiles, which is not very hard to do for the army and highly likely to happen in case of an all out war.”
    You mean that 125 mkis can be reduced when pak fires ballistac missiles at airbases? Do you think India will just sit there and not retaliate in the same manner and reduce the PAF numbers to the same extent? Hence numbers do matter. But you must also know that at least half of the mkis will kept at chinese border. With its 8000km range, su30mki was bought with China in mind.
    Also notice that after US and Russia, India is the 3rd country to have indegenously developed anti ballistic missile(ABM) systems thx to DRDO. All cities and millitary installations are getting shielded as I speak.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ballistic_missile


  70. “1) And that’s a good number of articles, which speaks for itself in terms of various independently verifiable sources.

    2) The point I am trying to make was that the air war was a success for PAF. As Vin Diesel once beautifully put it in a movie: “it doesn’t matter whether you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning.” Btw having superior planes doesn’t mean pilots can sit on their ass and do nothing while the plane does all the work. Dealing with a much bigger air force is a daunting task on itself and the pilots have done a marvellous job at it.

    3) Chuck Yeagers account of events explains about everything, as he points out he literally saw what was shot down. He also says ‘The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war.’ Wouldn’t he have left this part out if he was

    as i said, the sources were US-pakistan allied and only the achievements were pasted. In a war, the side which wins the majority of the battles and completes its objectives, wins.
    It is likely that PAF had a favourable ratio in kills than IAF. But rather than because of the ‘excellence’ of the pilots, its bcos it had access to latest US training, jets, missiles and radars which were far superior to the ones used by IAF.
    http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies_west.html
    A small but modern airforce can beat larger but primative one. Like Israel did.

    Now, the situation is different. India has access to cutting edge Israeli technology (next only to the US in terms of quality) while simultaneously developing them locally. IAF has both quantity and quality. During PAF vs IAF, I have no doubt who will win.

    Technology matters. It was technology that helped PAF establish a superior ratio. It was technology that helped the Israelis dominate the arabs.


  71. “Regarding the first link, it’s a useful one. However it does not surprise me that PAF isn’t mentioned. It’s a document on air dominance on a global level. Quantity is what matters to be considered here, something that PAF doesn’t necessarily have. I will once again mention Israel: their air force is beyond doubt the third, second or very best air force in the world in term of capabilities. They aren’t mentioned anywhere in the document either, thus ‘Israeli air dominance’ is not considered. Furthermore, individual pilot skills are not necessarily a decisive factor in defining one’s air dominance.”

    Not true. this report(http://www.afa.org/Mitchell/Reports/0908air_dominance.pdf) talks about India, Russia and China because they are the military powerhouses and pose as ‘credible threat’. Israel or Pakistan are not military powerhouses. This website gives rankings based on numbers:
    H**p://www.globalfirepower.com/

    LCA– coming up


  72. LCA — delays:
    The delay in development of the LCA was attributed mainly to India’s lack of experience in designing sophisticated fighter aircraft. India had only previously manufactured a second generation fighter (HF-24 Marut). Taking a leap from 2nd Generation to 4.5 Generation did prove to be an obstacle. US sanctions over India’s controversial nuclear tests along with the IAF’s ever-changing requirements did not help the LCA project. In a May 2006 interview, HAL chairman Ashok Baweja had said that the fifth prototype vehicle (PV-5), the trainer prototype, and the first of the eight LSP aircraft would be delivered before the end of 2006. These aircraft will help accelerate the initial operational clearance for the LCA.

    It was expected to be inducted into the IAF by the end of 2006, with the LCA’s System Design & Development (SDD) phase finally being completed in 2010.[63] A trainer version is under development and the design of the Naval version is complete, and are expected to fly in 2008. However LSP-1 made its first flight only in April 2007, while the Trainer prototype is yet to be delivered.

    The twenty aircraft order by the Indian Air Force (16 single-seat and four two-seat trainers) are not now expected to gain operational clearance until after 2012.[64]


  73. salaam ! very nice words
    salute to pak forces
    may live long


  74. Islam didnot exist in the subcontinent. It was spread here by the militant rulers from Arab. When they came, the brave ones were either killed in battle or killed after capture. But the cowards quickly converted to Islam. What can you expect from the people whose forefathers were such cowards.


  75. PAF ZINDABAD!!

    May ALLAH bless our dear homeland.

    And to all Hindus,jealous Indians, plz get lost dont mess here.


  76. @ Saher

    dont wory about that. the only indians jealous of pak are the ones in the mental hospitals. Serious brain damage. you can donate for their cause at http://www.stopwritingcrap.com


  77. Leslie!.It was your Christianity that was spread by the sword all over the world!.This is a historical fact…..

    India is the poorest nation on the planet and Mumbai the largest slum in the world.

    If you’re not Xtian then ignore my mail!


  78. @ Imran
    sorry pal but muslims did a lot of stuff themselves.

    India is the poorest nation on the planet that is why its economy is the 2nd fastest growing in the world.

    India is the poorest nation on the planet that is why It has the world’s second largest labour force

    India is the poorest nation on the planet that is why it is the twelfth-largest economy in the world

    India is the poorest nation on the planet that is why it has fourth largest by purchasing power

    India is the poorest nation on the planet that is why A Goldman Sachs report predicts that “from 2007 to 2020, India’s GDP per capita will quadruple,” and that the Indian economy will surpass the United States by 2043

    we have poverty but what matters is that v r escaping from it…fast
    U pakis gota know that badmouthing us will not improve ur condition nor will it worsen ours.
    SO please….


  79. SPREAD SIR ZAID HAMID THROUGH INTERNET AND MOBILE. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do SPREAD THIS MESSAGE IN ORDER TO UNITE THE NATION


  80. BE PAKI PROUD TO BE PAKI.ALLAH ALMIGHTY BLESS PAKISTAN AMEEN.LONG LIVE PAKISTAN


  81. Nikhil’s behind is on fire because the truth hurts!.India is doing well in many parts however there are always two sides too a coin!.Fact is many parts of India are worse then Africa no matter how much you kutchis and katharis deny it!!.You’re not escaping from poverty furthermore no one knows what the world will look like next week nevermind 2020 or 2043!.You’re exposing your ignorance by making ridiculous predictions.Adolf Hitler predicted Germany would rule for the next two hundred years!!

    You also “forgot” to tell us the thousands of separatist movements in your nation that are being surpressed by your so-called democratic government!.One would expect for a nation the size of India to have many natural advantages over Pak,compare yourself with a nation of equal size!.You’re nothing infront of China and the USA moreover your obsession with Pakistan/is is legendary!

    Muslims like any other religious community are no angels but unlike Hindu’s we don’t believe in karma but judgement.We don’t expect any favours from India or non-Muslims because historically the powerful have always opressed the weak so we just have to deal with it because presently we’re on the defensive.A day will inshallah come when we will unite and again rule India with an iron rod.Watch this space….


  82. @ Imran

    “Nikhil’s behind is on fire because the truth hurts!.India is doing well in many parts however there are always two sides too a coin!.Fact is many parts of India are worse then Africa no matter how much you kutchis and katharis deny it!!.You’re not escaping from poverty”

    I said we have poverty but what matters is that v r escaping from it…fast.
    plz read b4 u write.

    “You’re not escaping from poverty furthermore no one knows what the world will look like next week nevermind 2020 or 2043!.You’re exposing your ignorance by making ridiculous predictions.Adolf Hitler predicted Germany would rule for the next two hundred years!!”

    AGAIN… read what i wrote properly.
    I did not make any prediction. It was made by Goldman Sachs report
    http://www.usindiafriendship.net/viewpoints1/Indias_Rising_Growth_Potential.pdf

    I know its hard to swallow that Indian economy will surpass US. Sorry.

    “You also “forgot” to tell us the thousands of separatist movements in your nation that are being surpressed by your so-called democratic government!”

    thousands? its 5 of them. What abt ur close frnd China? have any idea what they do in tibet?

    “One would expect for a nation the size of India to have many natural advantages over Pak,compare yourself with a nation of equal size!.You’re nothing infront of China and the USA moreover your obsession with Pakistan/is is legendary!”

    After Independence, india and pak were on the same level. but now its way way ahead and catching up to others!

    the gap between china and India is not as big as u think:
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1492118/posts

    and finally, Indians are not “obsessed” with pak. its china that worries us.

    “.A day will inshallah come when we will unite and again rule India with an iron rod.Watch this space….”

    LOLLOLZZZ

    sorry dude but the viceversa seems more likely


  83. Nikhil,i suggest you read before you think dude!.Fact is that over 300 million people in India live below the poverty line which is twice the entire population of Pakistan!!Poverty is still a major problem and is not being eradicated whatsoever despite what your politicians say,its just proganda on their part!!!.

    As i said that being five times bigger means you’ve advantages as well as disadvantages but i’ve no hesitation in giving credit where it’s due.Pak began from scratch so much that at the time of independence no one gave the new nation a chance of surviving even two years but we’re still here!!No nation became great after sixty years,it took the west hundreds of years to be where it is today so don’t expect miracles.Don’t give me links because i can give you thousands in return like india-revealed.com

    I pity your intelligence if your views are based on USA reports which i don’t believe because for a Muslim like me “Allah is the best of planners”.This is the same USA that has been predicting the end of Pak for many years…this is the same USA that is on the verge of total collapse itself!.This is the same USA that is stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan so it should worry about itself.Maybe you can ask your USA friends and experts to predict next week’s lottery numbers too,…blah,blah,blah…..!!!.It’s good to have ambitions so keep dreaming about becoming a superpower…ho…ho…ho!!!

    You have your allies and we have ours in China and others,i realise what they’re doing in Tibet but you’re in no position to condemn oppression seeing what your armed forces are doing!.I never find truth difficult to accept which is why i have no hesitation in admitting that Muslim’s are being battered,as i say we don’t need your help or sympathy.Yes in your childish obsession of an Akhand Bharat millions of Indians especially BJP fanatics are obsessed with Pak!!.Bomb us and well bomb you back….


  84. @ Imran

    “300 million people in India live below the poverty line which is twice the entire population of Pakistan!!Poverty is still a major problem and is not being eradicated whatsoever despite what your politicians say,its just proganda on their part!!!”

    This is the Nth time i am saying this: There is a lot of poverty in india but still india is growing because
    the number of poor people are decreasing at a fast rate and the no; of rich people growing at an even faster rate.

    “Pak began from scratch so much that at the time of independence no one gave the new nation a chance of surviving even two years but we’re still here!!”

    not true. Immediatly after its birth, pak alligned with USA and recieved massive economic and millitary support. India on the other hand was non-aligned and therefore for a long time recieved no support, until
    71.
    Also note that after 1947 we indians were extreemly poor and backward with massive poverty and Russia used to give economic aid and donations to india. But now, India is giving donations and sponsoring research in Russia. On the other hand, Pak recieved aid from USA 60 years ago and even now continues to do so.
    Yes . India has done a much better job.

    “No nation became great after sixty years”

    DUH,… INDIA has. I can give u plenty of sources that say so.

    “Don’t give me links because i can give you thousands in return like india-revealed.com”

    HAHAHA. … dont make me laugh. india-revealed.com, rupeenews.com,etc are all pakistani-made anti-india websites. their information is mostly false or exaggerated. Always give international or neutral sources.

    “I pity your intelligence if your views are based on USA reports which i don’t believe because for a Muslim like me “Allah is the best of planners”.This is the same USA that has been predicting the end of Pak for many years…this is the same USA that is on the verge of total collapse itself!.This is the same USA that is stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan so it should worry about itself”

    Are u a retard? do u expect allah to come down and write a report on indian economy? the report I showed u was written by a qualified experts. I rather trust what they say than a bunch of india-hating pakistanis like u. US is not the only one who accepts that. the entire world has, except for pakistan.

    And finally, like i said we may be irritated with pak, but its china that worries us, because its the only country nearby that can do us military damage.


  85. Nikhil,

    Poverty is not decreasing rather all this “India shining” rubbish is proganda by your politicians to brainwash you folk!!.Yes you have more millionaires then us but also far greater poverty which is a FACT!.The general standard of living is better in Pak then Ind where you still have massive problems like AIDS and prostituation.Mumbai is the greatest slumyard in the world!!.You’ll naturally believe all pro-India reports where as i am an unbiased individual.

    India is only great in your biased mind that can’t accept reality because like it or not it’s a third world nation….yes Pak has many problems too that i have no problem in admitting!! So rupeenews.com and india-revealed.com etc are pro-Pakistani sites yet you’ve no problem in recommending American pro-Indian sites that you believe are truthful!.As i say your views are biased minues any logic because you only see what makes you feel secure and comfortable!.Pak did start from scratch but received economic benefits,no harm in admitting that at the time we did whatever we needed to survive for such are politics.

    It’not me but you whose an pure idiot and retard!!.Google 2012 and you’ll see that according to many experts the world will end on 12/12/12 so why don’t you believe in this!!?.See nostradamusonine.com who also predicts great war and famine between now and 2012 so why not believe in him!!.Listen you idiot,i believe in Islamic prophecy as revealed by Allah in the Qur’an not any USA report,palmists,clairvoyants,snake charmers or spiitualists even if they were too say that Pak would become the greatest nation on earth in ten years!.We can do you much damage and your leaders know it!.We’re also a nuclear power that has 250 Indian cities under our radar so war means mutual destruction.

    Being anti-Muslim and Pakistani hater i don’t expect any pro-Pakistani views from you but for what it’s worth i am not an Indian or Hindu hater rather a truthteller!.Get it through your thick skull that i only believe what ALLAH HAS SAID IN HIS QU’RAN that a time will come when Muslim’s will be killed in millions by all enemies of Islam which is happening today!.Allah has also said in his Qur’an that an Islamic state will be established with the return of the khalifah which means a Muslim leader but only after great war and hardship.Are you blind that you can’t see world war 3 is around the corner!!?.

    The fact that the USA is collapsing isn’t from any Pak source but they themselves admit it!!.No power lasts forever so there days are over as to is western capitalism!.Sorry to burst your bubble but India will never be a superpower no matter how much you keep harping on about it!.Whose too say that you won’t be dead by 2020 or 2043 so don’t look that far ahead thick brains for seeing the way the world is it could easily explode or implode by then.

    You better be nice to me afterall i wouldn’t want to see you reincarnated as a wasp or fly in your next life…..tut…tut….tut…
    I suggest you consider the job of a clown in a circus,it will fit you like a glove you moron!!.You’ve got the mind and thinking ability of a three year old if that at all!!!


  86. @ Imran

    I pity ur intelligence. If India is so poor, why does it have a very impressive qauntity and quality of weopons compared to most countries? why is it in the G20 while pakistan is not? Why does the world talk of her as a success story.?
    Jealousy helps no one my friend.

    Here is a UN report that talks about
    “a sharp rise in Pakistan’s rural poverty since the late 1980s, which is in striking contrast to a significant decrease in rural poverty in India during the same time period.”
    http://www.undispatch.com/node/7710

    Open ur eyes. Come out of ur biased dreamland.

    The entire world is saying that India is doing a good job while a bunch of pakis are saying the opposite. Who should I believe?

    Secondly, U can believe in nosterdamus, prophesies, magic, etc. but we Indians prefer statistics and reality. Reality says Pak can never catch upto India in any way. Accept that.

    Thirdly, during the great depression, almost the entire world said that US is dead. Did that happen?
    What is happening now is much reduced than what happened then. US will stay for a long time.

    “India will never be a superpower no matter how much you keep harping on about it”

    I never harped it. The entire world is saying that.

    “You better be nice to me afterall i wouldn’t want to see you reincarnated as a wasp or fly in your next life…..tut…tut….tut…”

    No . u be nice to me. bcos v will rule u with iron rod. LOL MORON


  87. Nikhil,

    Listen you cheap little kutchi this is a Pakistani site where the vast majority of views are pro-Pakistani so why don’t you fk off to an India site.The fact you’re here proves how important our views are too us Pakistanis which is why i say that you Indians are obsessed with us infact you suffer from a complex!.

    The “entire world” is not saying how great India is but a few reports are here and there!.However,for every such report there is another one from a different source that contradicts it!.Tell me about 2020 and 2043 when they arrive,until then take your head out of your crystal ball and shut your mouth!

    Yes in-terms of population we can’t be compared so here you have a massive advantage that can also be deemed as a disadvantage every now and again but in war things become very different!.You’re sarrounded by nations like Pak and China with whom you’ve had wars with and Srilanka and Bangladesh who you’ve never been on great terms with either!.I didn’t say i believe in Nostradmus or any other such false prophet rather that the internet is full with such people who predict the future!

    Another thing,i know there is much poverty in Pak but not half as bad as what is in your filthy land.Jealous of you????….you’ve been drinking too much cow piss so can’t think sraight!!.You’re no example to us rather i want Pak to one day resemble Malaysia or Japan though it’ll take many years for that to happen.300 million starving people living in AIDS infested India where prostitution is out of control,if that’s superpower then heaven help the poor!!!!

    No the US will not be around for a long time but a few years at best.Things have never been as bad for them as they are today.Here are some non-Pakistani sites that speak the hidden truth:
    thetruthseeker.co.uk
    rense.com
    informationclearinghouse.info
    whatreallyhappened.com
    prisonplanet.com
    freeamericanpress.net

    Come back to me WHEN you’re a super power which currently you’re not!!.We’ll see who rules who but my opinion is based on divine revaltion that is the Qur’an where as you depend on man made American reports!.Grow up and act your age!!


  88. Nikhil,

    You say how after the cold war the whole world predicted the collpase of the USA yet it survived proving everyone wrong(but now there time has come)!!.Similarly those who are today predicting India becoming a superpower are totally wrong too!


  89. @ Imran

    hohohoho …. somebody is jealous and angry.
    not suprising. u come from the land of zaid hamid.

    anyways i joined this forum bcos it talks sh*t about hindus and I wanted 2 stand up 4 my hindu friends who are all gud people. Thats how it started. I was also suprised to find many level headed pakis here who were not like zaid hamid. I also wanted to show the pakis that what they believe in are lies. But some like u cant see sense bcos they are blind even after i put evidence in front of them

    good luck….u need it
    pak also really needs it


  90. Hah…ha…ha….!.Your envy of PAKISTAN has been exposed and the fact you keep visiting this site shows how deep down you are afraid of Pakistan!.Muslim’s ruled India for a thousand years as a minority and we’ll rule you cow piss drinking Gandu’s again for it’s just a matter of time!

    Why would i be angry at someone in whose country people marry dogs and tree’s!!.Where opression of minority communities like the Gujarat massacre of Muslims….killing of Christians in Orissa and Nagaland….rape of Sikhs in Punjab and the untouchable ancient tradition continues to opress millions of Dalits!!.Zaid Hamid is a hero who fks India hard so i love him!!

    You come from the land where in Mumbai is the largest slumyard in the world!!.AIDS is so much out of control that your government couldn’t care less but hey in Hindu philosophy sex is also a form of worship as cleary propogated in the kamasutra!!

    You must be related to Hindu terrorists like Advani,Modi and Thackaray who suffer from a complex and are OBSESSED with Pakistan just like you are!!You’re blind as a bat who can’t see that his land is a crumbling shityard where 300 MILLION…i repeat…300 MILLION people minimum live well below the poverty line.You live in a dreamworld unable to handle the truth but will soon have too accept it!

    I am certain you didn’t view the links i provided because you’re not searching for the truth but happy in your comfort zone.What a loser….tut…tut…tut….


  91. Wow amazing it is happy to see that our PAF has don a wonderul job and i pray that in future they produce more best fighter plane.

    Pakistan zindabad!!!!!!


  92. someone please commit imran to a mental institute.

    thank u


  93. Poor Nikhil has been exposed,humiliated and battered by me so hard that he’s nothing left too say!!.It’s interesting to note how he hasn’t even challenged all FACTS i’ve exposed about India!

    Your country India is indeed worse then a mental asylum so don’t worry about me!.


  94. @ Imran

    I hate to wake u up, but I just showed u how india surpassed pak in every way. isnt that what u wanted?

    Regerding Poverty, just read that link i pasted above?
    It shows how India’s poverty is decreasing rapidly while pak’s is increasing.

    Do u want sources regarding military comparison also?

    The only thing pakistan has more than india is black magic and quran prophesies.


  95. @ nikhil
    Pakistan black magic?? Your ‘tantrik’ told a businessman to have sex with his daughter which will make his business boom! So he raped his daughter for 9 years!!

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4285650.cms


  96. -As Indian growth soars, child hunger persists which is even worse than many African nations.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/13/world/asia/13malnutrition.html?_r=1

    - Jobs Abroad Support ‘Model’ State in India
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/world/asia/07migrate.html


  97. P.S: If India won the 1965 war than why didn’t your General J. N. Chaudhary fulfill his dream which he announced on radio of having his tea at Lahore Gymkhana in the evening at 6:30 pm of September the 6th??


  98. @ IM

    1. if u wanted to understand what i meant my “black magic” and stuff, read my previous posts with imran

    2.FACT:India’s poverty is decreasing rapidly while pak’s is increasing.
    http://www.undispatch.com/node/7710

    3.pak started the 65 war in the hopes of annexing kashmir after the chinese weakened india and as majority of the troops were in the chinese border.
    Despite that, not only did india keep kashmir, but also attempted to capture Major cities like lahore.
    I think it was a good military victory.


  99. Nikhil,

    Get it into your thick head that i don’t believe in every report and can give many of my own links but don’t play this game because in the end you’ll believe what your mind accepts which is pro-India views only!

    You people only understand one language that is of sheer agression which the likes of Zaid Hamid speak.As he says “we should do a hundred more Kargils on you” and even consider attacking India with the help of China,afterall your enemies enemy is a friend,right??

    I don’t need military comparisons from a bully nation five times bigger in size trying to intimidate a smaller neigbour i mean it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that you naturally have an advantage here that comes with far greater manpower!.You and i both know that India doesn’t have the heart or guts to attack Pakistan so stick to drinking cow piss and marrying dogs and tree’s!.I recommend a vacation to the filthy Kumbh Mela where you can spend time with naked…errr…”holy” Sadhu’s high on joint near the Ganges that is full of excrement and urine!!

    As for black magic it’s common knowledge that India is the land of superstition where everything is worshipped so we don’t need a religious lecture from you my Hanuman monkey-worshipping friend!.You havn’t shown me anything but reports from sources that prove nothing whilst ignoring all links i provided furthermore you’re unabe to deny all accusations of opression in India.FACT is Mumbai is a big slumyard and you’ve 300 million living below the poverty line that says more then any report!.Poverty decreasing your ass,…the rich get wealthier and the poor even poorer!

    Nikhil,i know a few Indians including some teachers and none believe poverty is decreasing in India but your IT sector that effects only a few million is doing very well and you’ve far greater political stability then us.We’ll liberate Kashmir one day,i promise you….


  100. India has passed Pakistan in making soft porn movies that is Bollywood as well as prostitution,poverty and AIDS so congratulations on that.Hope it makes you happy Nikhil!!


  101. WTF?? So you are saying you captured Lahore and than what did u do?? as a good will gesture left it??

    Oh plz! your General embarrassed himself for life by making such a statement! Give our (Pakistanis) regards to him if he’s alive!


  102. @ IM

    Plz read wat i wrote. I said ATTEMPTED to annex lahore.


  103. @ IM

    tell me what u think of this
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brig.Hari_Singh_at_Barkee_Capture.jpg


  104. @ Nikhil

    I see your photo and raise you two of our own:

    Pakistan’s flag flutters proudly over the romantic Rajput fort of Kishengrah in 1965 war

    http://i43.tinypic.com/21jwwba.jpg

    Army C-in-C General Mohammad Musa Khan at Khem Karan Railway Station (India) in 1965 war

    http://i43.tinypic.com/a0us6q.jpg


  105. @ Imran

    something u should know. After Kargil indian PM warned that next time if it happens, we will recapture lost land and take pak territory also.
    Therefore as long as pak leadership does not have fools like zaid hamid, or unless pakistan suddenly gets powerful(unlikely), kargil wont happen again.

    India has more than enough ability to annex pak. But it does not bcos:
    1. no territorial ambitions(as seen during end of 65 and 71 wars)
    2. China
    3. Preserve Image of gandhian peace loving state in the international community.

    Indian military is 2 times not 5 times bigger than pak. The quality however is much better than that of pak.

    U cant insult me like that bcos I m christian.

    If at all there is black magic in india its ok bcos we r developing fast.

    I have shown u links about poverty decreasing in india. What does it take to convince u? a financial report from allah?

    when u say liberate kashmir u meant capture it? or do what we did to bangladesh?


  106. @ Dan Qayyum

    I wanted to show IM about india nearly capturing Lahore.

    I got ur pics but u cant deny that india captured more than triple the land of what pak captured during 65


  107. Nik – I’ll admit your figures once you admit that the Pakistan Air Force established a complete air superiority over the IAF and won the air battle. Fair deal I say ;-)


  108. @ Dan Qayyum

    I dont think we should be making deals here, we should discuss what actually happened.

    Unlike land and sea victories, outcome of air wars are very difficult to determine. Although Pak had a more advanced inventory then and probably, I think Pakistan never came anywhere close to dominating the air war bcos:
    1. outnumbered by IAF 2:1
    2. claims of pakistan are extreemly unreliable.
    for eg: pak claimed to capture 2000sq miles while neutral sorces say 210sq.miles(an exageration of 10 times). India claimed to capture 1500sq.miles while neutral sources confirmed it as 710sq.miles(an exaggeration of 2.5 times).
    Similarly the air claims of pakistan (19 PAF lost for 104 IAF) will also be 10 times exaggerated.

    also note that during 65 and 71, IAF equipment was no match for that of PAF
    http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies_west.html


  109. All the quotes mentioned in this post are from neutral sources, and they all back our claim of full air superiority over india.

    here’s one of many:

    The Pakistan Air Force, however, emerged with great credit from its conflict with the Indian Air Force, destroying 22 IAF aircraft in air-to-air combat for the loss of only eight of its own – a remarkable achievement considering that the PAF faced odds of nearly four to one.

    (Anthoney Robinson, former staff of the RAF Museum, Hendon and now a free lance Military aviation writer . Book: Elite Forces Of The World)


  110. @ Dan Qayyum

    there are points u must know:

    1.Only articles that praise PAF has been selected. IAF achievments have been left out.

    2.The American provided airplane jets, radar and communication systems were far superior to the ones used by IAF.

    3.Notice that all above sources praising PAF were american or western which were allied with pak during coldwar. It is obvious they will praise their ally and ignore the defects.

    4. these “claims” could be made up bcos none of them have links(except chuck yeager’s)


  111. Nikhil – You won’t be convinced and I just don’t have the time. Believe what you like. Simple as.

    thanks though.


  112. Nikhil,

    Bruhhaaaaaa!!!!.Sorry i went to sleep after having read your reply thus the delay in my response but Mr Cool is back!.Well you should have made it known that you’re Christian or was i supposed to see it in a dream!!?.As you can understand not many Christian’s have the name Nikhil!!!!

    I am shaking in my boot’s after having read your PM’s threat of taking Pakistan “next time”,loolz.This has been said a hundred times before so bring something new to the table!!I don’t believe in comparing weapons that you may have more of but we’re braver with the spirit of Jihad!.We established Pakistan without any military which tells you everything!.No,i disagree that your armed forces are of better quality, very recently they were shown up by a few terrorists in Mumbai for three days!!.They were unprepared,lacklustre,lazy and unprofessional!.

    Zaid Hamid,your worst nightmare speaks in the light of Islamic history and prophecy that you’ll know very little about.He fought in Afghanistan so has had first hand experience of conventional conflict.I am willing to show your faith respect providing you do the same instead of calling Islam “black magic”.That coming from a Christian,lolz!!

    Yeah you took Bangladesh from us but remember it didn’t revert to being part of India furthermore we liberated part Azad Kashmir and will do so the remainder too.Do you have a problem in reading English because i keep on repeating that every report is man made opinion.You show me 100 that support your views and i’ll show you a million that back mine!.FACT is 300 million beggars in your country today!!


  113. Love to watch this video!


    Clear View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4MJtPNDB9g


  114. @ Imran

    dont u get it? if India wanted to destroy pakistan, it wud have done that a long time ago.
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25865

    this article talks about the current situations in both countries. It is very accurate.
    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/india/articles/20090407.aspx

    this is a report by 2 PAKISTANIS about how the youth in pakistan are brainwashed with all the wrong things
    http://www.sdpi.org/archive/nayyar_report.htm

    if the mumbai attacks showed that indian army is unprepared,lacklustre,lazy and unprofessional! how come Pak army kept losing to them in all wars?
    Also in the Lahore attacks, u cud not even catch them!

    Zaid Hamid is violent and aggressive by nature and most things he says are false.

    next time u reply, paste sources to back ur claims or I will regard them as lies.
    DO U have any sources that back ur claims that
    Pak can take kashmir from india?


  115. @ IM

    why dont u guys stop focusing on indian failures?


  116. Why don’t you stop focusing on Pakistan’s failures?
    And stop comparing it with India again and again and trying to prove two nation theory didn’t work!


  117. @ IM

    what are u talking about?
    we are not the first ones to throw mud at u.
    U are.

    Just look at the number of pakistan based anti india websites.

    On the other hand i challenge u to show me an antipak website.(made by indians)


  118. We at least do it on websites. But your mainstream media never misses an opportunity of insulting Pakistan including Politicians. Everything that happens in India is first and foremost pointed at Pakistan and the investigations are done after wards.

    Here is something about your secular democracy.
    http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/jan_a2009/editorial.htm

    http://www.iheu.org/node/1329


  119. @ IM

    U r wrong. By showing me that video U just proved that Pak media is extreemly abusive to india. can u show me indian media making fun of missing steps or sweatstains or anything of that sort?

    next. we are not yet completely secular but we r going in that direction. You Pakistani guys have no right to point your fingers at that bcos that wud be like a murdurer pointing his finger to a petty thief and telling him that he is wrong.

    Pakistan’s record of minority support and human rights is so bad that it wud make india luk like a saint.


  120. Also
    http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/jan_a2009/editorial.htm
    any one with common sense can figure out that this is a pro-pak anti-india website. The info given here is 90% false or exaggerated


  121. @nikhil

    The ratio of Pakistan media insulting India to Indian media insulting Pakistan is like 1 : Million.

    Ohh yeah yeah I can see you going in the secular direction wasn’t like the Assam riots taking place one or two months back, raping nuns and burning them alive. mobs who are doing this are getting free booze for doing all this. Lalit modi a free man even after full proof video were shown on national as well as international TV. The guy involved in Sikh massacre getting a clean chit. “wow” what a Fair secular democratic country!!

    Dalit voice exaggerated?? The truth is when you guys call us “in-denial mode” you should take a closer look at yourselves. One third of the Indians want separation.

    Sorry to disappoint you Indians but we Pakistanis aren’t such shallow thinking people that a few problems hit our country that we even start questioning as to why it even existed!


  122. Nikhil,

    It’s you who is unable to grasp the truth my ignorant Indian friend depending too much on pro-indian sources!!.You can’t destroy us because we’d nuke your ass which your leaders are only too aware off!.Certainly they tell you Indian’s that “next time” we’d do this or that to Pak!.Do you expect them to say that if Pak attacks we’d do nothing!!

    My source that Pak will take Kashmir from India is Islam,the Qur’an and hadith’s of the Holy Prophet(saw) which is all that i need and far more authentic to any other report!!.What’s the point in believing in religion or scripture without faith??.Also Arundhati Roy the Indian human right’s lawyer has made Indian atrocities known to all however freedom shall win the day!

    Bollywood is partly to blame for the corruption of our youth so we should ban your pornographic sick movies!.Unlike you i don’t keep a list of websites that i visit but rupeenews.com is one that i consider unbiased that speaks the truth!.I’d say that we licked you in 1965 war,you can see many independent articles here on this site but a person born blind can’t see any colour!.Yes your armed forces were terrible in Mumbai where as ours managed to control all situations within a few hours.The Israelis had a good go at your lazy soldiers!!


  123. @ IM

    what kind of crack do u smoke? can u show me any indian media sinking to a low level of that youtube video u showed me? Pak media is much worse no doubt. Dalit voice exaggerated and false? yes because it is written by a pakistani whose heart was filled with malice and jealousy and wanted to purposely defame india.

    secondly, I am repeating , u pakis have no right to talk shit about our secularism bcos what u do is much worse

    http://www.twocircles.net/minority-students-pakistan-forced-study-islamiyat.html

    http://www.hvk.org/articles/0502/162.html

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_pakis.htm

    Do the minorities of india flee? No. but Pakistani minorities do.
    http://specials.rediff.com/news/2009/mar/18sld1-hindu-families-face-the-heat.htm

    MODERATER, IF U ARE NON-BIASED, PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THIS POST .


  124. @nikhil
    Firstly I never said we are a secular country, Pakistan was made in the name of Islam. I posted the links because you keep claiming that India is secular!

    Dalit Voice is Indian and the article is written by the editor who is and Indian.
    http://www.dalitvoice.org/about.htm


  125. Smelly Indians are in no position to point the fingure at Pakistanis seeing all the separatist movements in the worn up place!

    Killing of minorities is normal by the Hindutva fascists like Modi,Thackaray and Advani so don’t lecture us on human rights and all that garbage!.Zaid Hamid is a man who has seen conflict and is against all forms of Zionism not non-Muslim’s who he has never spoken against.

    First clean your dirty land full of Muslim haters where killers of innocents in Gujarat etc walk free despite being caught on camera admitting murder by the folk at tehelka.com.Pakistan is a reality that Kutchis,Chamars and Katharis are struggling to accept despite their “victory” in 1971,Bangladesh remains a direct result of Muslim’s splitting India in 1947!!


  126. “This report is that of a very high ranking Indian millitary official. It is unlikely that he will lie about anything. can u point any part of his story that was false?”

    I didn’t say I found faulty info in the article. I only dispute the neutrality of the item. No big deal though, since no one is saying the author is lying.

    “DRDO achivements
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Research_and_Development_Organisation

    Lol just as I thought; Wikipedia to the rescue! Wiki is the last page you should be looking for reliable info, as anyone can edit anything at anytime.

    I was asking to point out achievements, this page mentions failures as well, some without pointing out failures. A couple of examples:

    1) BrahMos CM, repeated failures, yet not mentioned on Wiki. See http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=19812 and http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2009-02-20/509109news.html for examples (<– don’t miss out on the lies about having conducted ‘successful tests’ earlier, claims they had to withdraw here);
    2) Arjun MBT, an outright failure (enough Indian sources to back this claim as you might already know, DRDO has also lied earlier about its capabilities);
    3) Trishul, failure but mentioned;
    4) Akash, plenty of failures in development;
    5) LCA, dito;
    6) IGMDP http://www.indianexpress.com/news/armed-forces-wait-as-showpiece-missiles-are-unguided-way-off-mark/16521/3
    7) I know for a fact that Agni-III and indigenous AWACS repeatedly bumped into difficulties also;
    8) *sigh*… this is just too much to sum up. Let’s conclude it http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1896347.cms

    By the way, it’s not me who is pointing all these things out. Most people who have little faith in DRDO are Indians. Hell, if I were an Indian I would be pulling my hair out too :) As I quote an Indian who is evidently a slight bit wiser than the folks at DRDO: “”The DRDO always resists import of technology to counter delayed induction of new equipment. The political masters should not shield its incompetence,” says a serving officer, not wishing to be named.”

    Additional general references: http://www.indianet.nl/indpk199.html#20070402b and
    http://www.hindustantimes.com/storypage/storypage.aspx?id=0f941209-ca0f-4e33-857c-0830f927e0ea&amp;

    More sources (mostly Indian) heavily critical of DRDO are just too numerous to mention them all here. I’m sorry to tell you this but there’s nothing about Pakistani defence development which even comes close to facing this much embarrasment.

    “Every country that aspires to be a world power has to have its own independent aviation industry just like china succeeded and india is trying to.”

    Says who? Just because other world powers do it? I’m not denying that others have done it in support of their strategic objectives, but India must be the first country which is experiencing these initiatives to be counterproductive and that should be enough reason for any sane mind to rethink their entire strategy and approach. But hey, who am I to argue with the almighty, all knowing DRDO right :)

    “OF COURSE so many. why then cant we fly su30mki or mig29 from a carrier? Why cant the US fly f22 on their carrier? A plane that is meant for a cairrier has a lot many different requirements. I have not been able to find a good source, but from what I know, it should have a very strong airframe because of short landing stretch, entirely different and strong landing gear and internal support systems that compramises many other things, small wingspan for preserving area, etc…”

    No need for sources, i’ve already found that info.

    “How on earth did you come to that conclusion?”

    See LCA’s history :P Oh and by the way, i’m still waiting for your sources claiming LCA’s ‘superior maneuverability’.

    Regarding the videos, I missed out on those parts and simply didn’t see that there was a second part. Well you have rightly pointed out the right statements I must say.

    “True. But my point is that an aircraft that can equal the f 22 on paper must be a formidable airplane indeed. An airforce that hosts hundreds of them is no joke.”

    Read more closely, i’m not making a joke out of the IAF. I’m only countering those dreamy statements with reality.

    “Sorry my mistake. They use super vipers i think which is even better than blk 60.(which they are trying to sell to us at MRCA)”

    Really? Didn’t know about that, can you share a link on this?

    “You mean that 125 mkis can be reduced when pak fires ballistac missiles at airbases? Do you think India will just sit there and not retaliate in the same manner and reduce the PAF numbers to the same extent? Hence numbers do matter. But you must also know that at least half of the mkis will kept at chinese border. With its 8000km range, su30mki was bought with China in mind.”

    You are directly contradicting yourself by suggesting that ballistic missile offensives are likely to neutralise the AF threat in general and then go on by claiming that AF numbers DO matter. Do reconsider this thought, didn’t make sense at all. By the way, it doesn’t matter where you station aircraft in India, they’re still in Pakistan’s reach.

    “Also notice that after US and Russia, India is the 3rd country to have indegenously developed anti ballistic missile(ABM) systems thx to DRDO. All cities and millitary installations are getting shielded as I speak.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ballistic_missile

    Feeling safe? Now read this: “Dismissing PAC-3 as “an outdated system”, the scientist said India’s BMD system was “20-30% more capable” than it. He, however, acknowledged the BMD system had received some help from countries like Israel (LRTRs), France (fire-control radars) and Russia (seekers).” http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India-kicks-off-work-on-advanced-missile-defence-shield/articleshow/4247009.cms
    Sounds like another classic DRDO lie coming your way. You want to believe this crap? :) The Americans with their enormous R&D setup surely lost their sleep over this ;)

    It’s 3am in the morning here in Holland so i’m going to sleep now. I’ll respond to the rest of your comments when I have the time another day.


    • Khan Saab Cha Gayay Hoo


  127. [...] If this doesn’t fill you with pride, nothing will.   [...]


  128. salam!AIR FORCE and guys whose submitted their comments i have read many technicals and logical comments but i am sorry to say that many brothers write many dishearting points about air force and people brother no worry inshallah our air force is great and it will remain no need to worry about it.khalid asie salam pakistan


  129. salam!imran bhai i have read your burning comments brother inshallah kashmir is our and we will take it further.india will crash inshallah we do.and i am khalid asie from islamabad.


  130. Nikal bhai salam i am khalid asie and i have read your ideas and observation man.Brother in every society some peoples are good and bad but your claim is not right that in pakistan there is no respect for non muslim and for minorities.brother its wrong in our pakistan constitution and also in islamic law there is respect for you people.plz if you have faced any discourging issue or talk i am sorry for this one man.Allah Negahban


  131. Nikhil bhai sorry to say that i have used wrong spelling of your name in first comment.Brother we should go to realities that firstly the Bersaghir crashed and spread in the map of the world in three parts.This was not for good but this was the dictatory of British.so plz we are neighbours and we should shares our ideas against British policies and american also.they are treating with pakindo muslims like animals be cared.


    • uh ok….

      but we are comparing the airforces of india and pak/.

      do u have any thing to contribute?


  132. pakisatn airforce is better than IAF.what PAF did in 1965 though it was less equiped than IAF.pakistan airforce made many succesful surgical satrike on india.now PAF is passing through transition stage.PAf is now buying 40 f12 bomber jet from china whose production is expecte to start on 2012.pakistan is bying 250 JF 17 thundre multiroe jet which belongs to 5th generation. come to india , IAF has shortage of technical staff.due to less training,mirage jet are near to end due to in bad condition while PAF has lost few of them.it can alsa seen that one of sikhu (which is bought from russia)was curently destroyed due to unsuffisient condition,while pakistani f16 which is nearly 18 year old are still in good condition due to good care.se other angle RAW whish is invole in terarist activities & other intelligense agencies are bed failed in momby attacks and the commandos action in these attack was unbeleiveable.indian army hase nearly shortage of 4500 officers.Further more army training institute are lack of candidates.indian army are facing many freedom fighetr groups.what india is doing in kashmir,what was done in gujrat,what is being one with charistion is an open book.this is secular india.

    PAKISTAN ZINDBAD
    PAKISTAN LIVELONG
    TALHA
    FROM ISLAMABAD


    • asalamaolikom
      hop u g8 talha by the grace of rahman ur raheem
      talhaa thank u soo much 4 supporting us………….. we r really proud 2 u n ur mother she give us like u “jawan-momin”
      thankx alot off u
      tacrzz
      masalam
      saba zaman
      frm karachi city


  133. thxxx.saba zana


  134. Pakistan Air Force One of Best


  135. i am very happy to know that paf is the one of the best air force of the world.paf is better than indian air force,and we ahve increase its capacity time to time.
    nadir ali saroya
    university law college
    univeristy of the punjab new campus lahore (pakistan)


  136. the website provide information about pakistan airforce. Pakistan Air force is the best airforce in the World.


  137. dear all pakistanis,

    insted of thinking India as enemy try to fight with your own resident enemy (taliban). look I dont know how great is PAF but yes

    Indian Armed forces is greatest

    Udhar ke paise se banduk kharid kar jung karne wale bhikhari mulk hai PAKISTAN


    • Haan chal tu khush ho ja naklee pathan, udhar ke hi paisa hai na???

      Gujrat mein teri maa aur bhen ki izzat lut-ne ke baad compensation mein mili hui rakam tu nahi?

      Make sure of one thing that your sister doesn’t run away to marry a Hindu… chal nikal yaha se dhobi ke kuttay jo na ghar ka hai aur na ghat ka…


    • Shut up you Brahmin slave and Pathan wannabe!!IAF are bullies who only kill innocents in Kashmir and Nagaland to name just a few!

      As we witnessed in Mumbai that a few homegrown terrorists made your army look like idiots infront of the world.


  138. We need to stop living in the past. Where do we get our jets from? Do we build them ourselves? Until we do we do not have much to be proud of.

    We may have the best fighter pilots in the world but one against ten is a losing battle.

    We will NOT be able to build world class fighter jets until we build world class UNIVERSITIES. Think about this: How many Universities do we have capable of granting a PhD?

    I would request and beg wealthy Pakistanis to start doing something constructive. Do something like Imran Khan. Build a College, build libraries, build hospitals.
    Flood our country with libraries. Go to a big city in Pakistan and try to find a public library? Now think about this. In almost every town and city in Britain you will find not one but sometimes several libraries which are FREE for everyone. Who do you think will win in the long term. Who will have the better air force?


    • Your correct in your observation however no nation ever became great in sixty years!.Defence is a priority especially as we are located in a very hostile region.

      It took Europe and the America’s centuries to get where they are so you need to be realistic.Inshallah all other facilities will come in time.


      • Salam,

        I totally agree with what “MA” had to say. Pakistan needs to step in the right direction and the right direction is EDUCATION. We are in a dire need of libraries, schools, colleges and universites. ITS THE ONLY WAY.

        Imran, i would like for you to take a look at China, it took them how long to become the country that they are today????
        I think its a year less than what Pakistan has had….. if not then the same.


  139. Did the Universities of USA & Europe help anyone saving their country from dirty claws of Zionist, Education is a must, but remember their are two kinds of Person in this world, first Stupid, which are indians, 2nd kind of peoples are Educated Stupids, The West,

    The third kind of people can be found only in Pakistan, guess your self what?, you are hailing the Educational system, and Industrial Education Revoulution which kills 600,000 in Iraq, and more 250,000, where was the Libraries of Euorope dude ?

    consider your self best what ever you are this is the best survival tactics, through out the history, preserve and be happy in whatever you have, China survived 3000 years, he preserved!

    Be a Proud Pakistani

    @Shia (Chotiye k bacha) do you think you are a representer of Shia community ? Iran is a representer of Shia community and Ally with Pakistan, so don’t try to be sooo smart ok, don’t try to be over smart, Consider this fact Israel launched a spy Israeli satellite over Iran back in 2002,

    India is now nothing more than shit of IsraHell, Israel love to call India the sister of IsraHell, India chose to be with IsraHell, Inshallah will finish with Israel.

    @All Indians: can’t claim anything about PAF, Ager apne zour e Bazoo par itna Bharosa hai, tou aik baar ander aakar daikho, yahan par blog blog khailne se tumhari mardangi sabit nahin hogi, we invite you, come and testify your bravery ;)


  140. MY BROTHERS

    PLEASE SOMEONE STEP UP AND SHOW THE WORLD THE RELIYY OF BOMBAY ATTACKS .SHOW THE INDIANS THIER NACKEDNESS AND TO WORLD. HOW COWARD THEY ARE (BANYE K BACHY)


  141. i love paf and i want to come in paf in somne years now i am in 9th class and after A levels inshallah


  142. first its always the self believe and Imaan which plays most important role , our history shows us and our Prophet PBUH told us ,whatever war a muslim army had won in the past ,muslims were few in number and machines , from badr to 1965 its a same situation
    but as PAF is passing through a great transition period ,it will boost and add much needed air power to PAF ,i don’t care how many air crafts india have , PAF airforce history speaks for itself , now every indian shut your mouth and listen , what stopped you in 1998 when you and your masters make a plan to attack Pakistan nuclear sites ,one reason was PAF , and your IAF chief spoke out that they will be unable to defend indian nuclear sites from PAF ,same with your master Israel and you two evils back off because of PAF , is this not true that indian mig 21 is a flying coffin ,famous term in IAF , LCA is a fail project , i bet there is a huge corruption in IAF , i bet if you buy f22 raptor within years you will make a junk of f22 raptors because you guyz lack infrastructure and your policies speak for itself , su , mirage , now buing F16 ,mig ,jaghur (sorry for spelling), now can i ask you which technology you have expertise , french , american , russian ?? look at russia , usa , france air force and see which type of speciality they have , you are jackal of all master of none type airforce, PAF is a name of quality and professionalism , long live PAF , long live Pakistan


  143. Tiger on ground, Shaheen In Air


  144. Indians listen dont say that we dont have courage to fight with you…it was you twice gathered army near the borders within decade and then cannot dare to attack…twice ur army pissed in their pants when they reached near the border… :)


  145. PAKISTAN ARMY Zindabad,

    PAKISTAN Navy Zindabad,

    PAKISTAN Airforce Zindabad,

    PAKISTANIS Zindabad (Zahid Hamid and PKKH team)

    PAKISTAN Paindabad


  146. pakistan air force is my ideal.i want to become a poilat.i am very glad to know that pakistan airforce has to defend our pakistan.pakistan zindabad.allha hafiz


  147. hi i always love to see AIR FORCE posters where i can feel proud on our AIR FORCE braveness,high moral.i have aim to join air force.


  148. Come on india we will show u how we beat u in war.Live long pakistan.


  149. [...] PDRTJS_settings_11610_post_556 = { "id" : "11610", "unique_id" : "wp-post-556", "title" : "Pakistan+Air+Force+%7C+A+Proud+History", "item_id" : "_post_556", "permalink" : "http%3A%2F%2Fsiyasipakistan.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2F07%2Fpakistan-air-force-a-proud-history%2F" } by: PKKH [...]


  150. salam every1. its my 1st time 2 enter in this site. i want 2 say 2 all the pakistanis tat it doesnt matter we r nt having much strength as india. bt we have the power of eemaan we have the power of islam. and with that power v can beat 100 indias it is only 1 india. and pak army is the best and also the people of fata so nothing 2 worry. india has lost, india is losing and india will loss every war inshALLAH.
    PAKISTAN ZINDABAD
    PAK ARMY PAYENDABAD


  151. [...] Top Posts Shining India: Farmers Sell Wives After Crops FailHussain Haqqani To ISI – Let Blackwater InPakistan Army PhotosUS Military Bases 'Will Destabilize Pakistan'Indian Army To Deploy Prostitutes As A Women Battalion In Held KashmirBlackwater / Xe in Pakistan – Full VersionScholar Explodes Myth of ‘India Shining’ ImageOur Fifth Column AmbassadorSpecial program on PAF Women PilotsPakistan Air Force | A Proud History [...]


  152. A Allah meri regon k khoon ko bi muslmaan ker de….. shaheed hu to use bi La ilaha illAllah ka gewa ker de
    (Amin)

    Pakistan Zindabad (Amin)
    Pak Fog Zindabad (Amin)


  153. I hate war but Pakistan will kick ass


  154. pakistan a deja gagner la geurre contre les poudais (indous) apres l’independance tandit que pakistan n’avais rien a ce moment la mais maintenan pakistan possede le bombe nuclear je suis fier d’etre un pakistanais et de fair partie des pakistanais j’esper que pakistan restera jusq’au fin du monde pakistan zindabad . from PARIS ( FRANCE)


  155. I love also Pakistan Air Force.


  156. UR DOING A BEST JOB GUY…


  157. proud be pakistani and also our air force


  158. Pictures related to Pakistan Air Force

    http://infopedia-ravi.blogspot.com/

    JF-17 Thunder
    JF-17 Thunder Block 2
    F-16 Fighting Falcon
    Mirage (Rose I,II,III)
    F-7PG
    A-5

    Check out


  159. ASALAM O ALAIKUM
    ji han hum sab pakistani hain aur hamain fakhar hai aur hona chaye.


  160. @all hindus,

    If u hindus think u r now superior after getting raped by Pak, then where were your forces after mumbai attacks ? You ppl just bark and sit on israel russian american shoulders and trying to destablize Pakistan by funding those coward suicide attacks, But remember very near a war will be coming, and all the mujahideens from afghanistan, arab, iran, Pakistan will kick you out from Afghanistan and then ..invasion of india is for sure. China is already watching u from east :)….Pak army is ready for the first attempt from india (and india knows this), so you are silent.

    India has 25 % Ground missiles technology and 75 % from Air but we have 75 % from the ground and 25 % Air missiles, We have enough fighting machines and men for you hindus. About shia and sunni, we shia sunni and hindus and other minorities live in peace here. Not like gujrat. 4 days before, another SU MKI 30 crashed in india.lol. You ppl have money but not courage or brain. That is why you dont now dare to attack after (mumbai attack) :D


  161. Well… to being with..look who is talking.Having newspaper clips of a bygone era and inserting them to show the ariworthiness of your esteemed PAF,under the present circumstances will not be of any good assistance.other than propaganda, it has got nothing. I think you guys have the tendency to clung to your past..that is why.. your GDP and the living conditions are still primitive. A bunch of butchers romaing around killing innocents in the name of your Holy prophet are heroes.

    When half the forces are being sustained on financial assistance offered by the US of A, you are crying about hell.. that we indians are influenced by zionist ..blah blah blah….the same guys who are pffering you the funds to fight so called terrorism is eating up your own identity. What the hell do you think of yourselves? Buddy, war is not a solution under the present circumstances. Do you know,..how much it cost in the name of war?? Man and life.. assets to a nation.. but no.. you will never learn.. a county which never gave its due to their erstwhile brothers( EAST PAKISTASN)…killing their intellectuals and studens.. mass genocide in the name of OPERATION SEARCHLIGHT..

    There is no ending to the mayhem. It is not only your fault.. it is also our fasult.. and the great mistake of 2 nation theory.. of our leaders and our egos….
    India bashing or Pakistan bashing will not at all help….
    So..please stop this utter nonsense blaming India about all your problems…you see we are too preoccupies without internal affairs.. which to you will be a good news..its total chaos and mess.


  162. Hi All,
    I am also an air force enthusiast. I have compiled an article about PAF. The link is posted above. Comments are welcome.


  163. well whatever planes we have one thing is clear
    PAF remains the world most beloved Air Force in the world by a Nation , believe me we Pakistani’s Love PAF as much as we love Cricket and PAF is a passion
    in Pakistan , without any single thought i safely say that PAF is loved by Pakistani’s and relation of PAF and pakistan nation is of love and trust and Confidence that PAF will always defend Pakistan air space so whatever the odds are PAF will face it with courage ,bravery ,which is in our souls ,last but not least it was PAF on the night of 1998 Nuclear blasts by Pakistan who had stopped the Indians and there masters (Israel) attack on Pakistan ,Can any Indian explain why Indian and Isreal air force didn’t have the courage to attack when everything was planned ,when isreal air force planes were ready on Indian bases in India
    it was PAF activities in Pakistan air space
    ask any PAF pilot about that night and they will tell you the passion ,courage of PAF pilots
    there determination stopped the attack on Pakistan
    PAF is our beloved air force and will remain there for ever to defend Pakistan ,


  164. Pakistan Air Force Is The Only Air Force In The World Who Fight & Destroy Indian & Israil Jet Planes In Air To Air Combat


  165. I like Pakistan air force very much


  166. Only it is enough that
    THE PAKISTAN AIR FORCE


  167. brother,

    please go through who is better in airfoces, we know that one combination of pakistan,china and u.s.a and the combination of india,russia and israiel , i wanna just express the orignal views and you should think over it, Is china and usa is using pakistan? what india and pakistan forces are using for there money for wars, this is time to develop to economic not forces, we should fight to developed of country, is every india and pakistani knows that when both country leader reach in usa and uk they enjoy togather they are using their country money for them, so we should think over to develop our economic not forces,

    i proud to be indian

    omesh


  168. Here is my compilation of history of PAF:

    http://historyofpakistanairforce.blogspot.com


  169. Here is my compilation of history of PAF:

    http://historyofpakistanairforce.blogspot.com


    • Janab Ejaz Hussain,Salameliakum,
      Fascinated reading your non-fuss execellent history of PAF.I was one of a few, eye-witness to
      the downing of IAF Canberra by Flt.Lt.M.Younas
      over Rawalpindi on 10th April,1959.It was Eid day;
      I with my Father & younger brother had gone for
      Eid prayers.Time was approx. 0830 hrs,clear crisp
      cold morning,at Army grounds.We were listening to
      qutba,when I heard ‘tat-tat…’.I along with a few
      others looked back(to east)to see two aircraft
      at high horizon;from one aircraft two(I remember)parachutes were descending.I/we wondered what it was.
      After prayers when we came home my Father had a telephone call:IAF recce. bomber had been shot down by PAF F86. My Father,Colonel,was posted at
      GHQ.I was first-year student at Gordon College.
      Please note that IAF thought Pakistan Armed Forces
      would have their ‘guards down’ on Eid day.IAF learnt to their expense otherwise.
      I wonder how many remember about this day.
      Would be very interesting to know if Flt.Lt.Younas
      was awarded any medal & his future career in PAF.
      Pakistan/PAF Zindabad.


  170. **SALAM PAK AIR FORCE**
    “TO SHAHEEN HY,KAM HY PRWAZ TERA
    TERY SAMNE ASMAAN OR BHE HAIN”


  171. To all Paki bros already your ‘ABC’ is cut…!!!

    ‘LCA Tejas’ will cut the rest remaining…!!!


  172. There is no doubt about par excellenc of Pakistan Air Force in the world.I am really proud of PAF becouse it depends on islamic& military spirit,faith in Almighty Allah in case of war and peace, not on weapeons like India and other countries.Acceptional and excellent qualities are found in PAF.PAF is the bravest in the world.MAY ALLAH PROPERLY GUIDE AND HELP PAF IN RIGHT DIRECTION!I LOVE PAF.
    LIVE LONG PAKISTAN AIR FORCE!


  173. Its a pity seeing you Pakistanis saying PAF is this that, where were these PAF fighters during wars ? They were bashed like mashed potatoes! And well your country is hell , no political leadership, people starve without food, bomb explosions kill people everyday.. and in Kargil your army didnt even accept the bodies of your slain army men.. that a pity.. first learn to accept the realities then call allah! allah wont clean your ass if you shit in it every war with India.. this is the problem with you people.. i love islam, its a greate religion and ne of teh oldest one too! its a pity that you muslims dont know how to respect that religion!


  174. donot fight againts the muslims


  175. Dear Pakistani,

    Go through the reality,don’t dream while ur eyes open.Chuck yeager is reported to have said that the Pakistani army would be in New Delhi within a week..He was a pakistani agent who took 5 million dollar to help poor pakistani.Pakistan surrender to India in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 after chuck statement.
    I feel the performance of the Pakistani Air Force, in particular was good but Seee the end result of both 1965 & 1971 wars..Both the war won by India and the world knows it.
    FYI visit these links..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Yeager
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_Wars

    Ranjan



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